Help with knife steel buying please (reactive/wear with food)

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Alford78

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Ok, I'm new to Japanese knives and relatively new to steels in general but have read some posts that advise people not to buy such in such knife because of its outside layer wearing off on food and/or making the food taste bad/changing the foods' colors.

I understand that carbon steel in general will require attention to prevent rust and patina is user dependent. I myself would either force a patina on my first knife or use it on which ever food would most likely make my preferred color patina form naturally. All that is fine with me and my wife and we have been trying to care for our first two quality knives (Miyabi 5000mcd Santoku-Konosuke HD2 270mm Lazer) as if they were carbon just to get in the mindset to wipe the blade off. It's a good practice for a number of reasons but will also help reduce the chance of rust forming on a different steel once we purchase such knife.

But, I've read that some knives will literally wear off on the food and cause either or both color changes to the food and taste added to food. I assume knives that would do this (wear off on food) are either poorly made or are of a certain tradition with older materials? Now the knife adding tastes to foods is most likely owner/user/consumer dependent but also surely some steels are more known for adding such tastes than others, or no? Any general rule or known steels that stand out would be great to know to stay away from? I'm wanting to get a non stainless knife soon but don't have a certain style in mind.

I'm sure this has been covered a bunch but my searching hasn't gotten me very far. And apologize if this is wrong section in advance.
 
Some knives are simply more reactive than others. It's often cladding in a softer steel, but I wouldn't say that means they are poorly made. It's just the choice of material.
Most of that reactivity will be an issue on early use. You can form a less reactive layer on the outside through various types of patina--forced or naturally developed. Once the patina is there, you'll get far less reactivity.
Yes, you might have to be carefully initially with a knife that is reactive. It might be an issue on slicing onions or other foods that will be eaten raw and appearance is an issue. If you're going to cook the onions, it's not that big a deal.
 
I honestly don't know why people want to bother with the hassles of a carbon steel reactive knife when powder metallurgy steels can out perform them. How high of an HRC does carbon steel go anyway? Some PM steels go all the way to 67 HRC, though I think 63-64 may be more ideal for added toughness.
 
I honestly don't know why people want to bother with the hassles of a carbon steel reactive knife when powder metallurgy steels can out perform them. How high of an HRC does carbon steel go anyway? Some PM steels go all the way to 67 HRC, though I think 63-64 may be more ideal for added toughness.

I'm guessing that you haven't owned an artisan made carbon steel knife.
 
I honestly don't know why people want to bother with the hassles of a carbon steel reactive knife when powder metallurgy steels can out perform them. How high of an HRC does carbon steel go anyway? Some PM steels go all the way to 67 HRC, though I think 63-64 may be more ideal for added toughness.

I thought the same thing at first. After buying both I think there are good reasons for both. I personally almost only use carbon or stainless clad carbon. My wife and children are encouraged to use the SS knives.

The advantage of SS is obvious. The advantage of carbon for me is sharpening. I'm not that great at it and carbon is a lot easier for me to get a wire edge on and to sharpen in general. I have found the carbons to maintain their edge as long as SS too. You should try one, you might like it.
 
Well I'd like an artisan carbon knife but would like to avoid tasting it or bothersome reactions past the normal patina. Any steels that are less likely to make food taste different and relatively nonreactive once a patina has formed? I see some higher end knives that are made from tamahagane for instance? I know that's old but would it be more or less prone to these issues? Just in general any steels that are worth avoiding for these reasons?
 
Well I'd like an artisan carbon knife but would like to avoid tasting it or bothersome reactions past the normal patina. Any steels that are less likely to make food taste different and relatively nonreactive once a patina has formed? I see some higher end knives that are made from tamahagane for instance? I know that's old but would it be more or less prone to these issues? Just in general any steels that are worth avoiding for these reasons?

I've used V2 and white 2 and haven't had issue with that. Cleaning with baking soda will keep the reactivity down. Unless it's the carbon steel that from the Fujiwara FKM line (I don't think any artisan knife would use that, but even then a well set in patina is all it needs).
 
Well I'd like an artisan carbon knife but would like to avoid tasting it or bothersome reactions past the normal patina. Any steels that are less likely to make food taste different and relatively nonreactive once a patina has formed? I see some higher end knives that are made from tamahagane for instance? I know that's old but would it be more or less prone to these issues? Just in general any steels that are worth avoiding for these reasons?

In my experience, the least reactive steel I've used is 52100. It takes a nice looking patina and once you build a patina, it doesn't transfer taste to food. If it's an artisan knife you are interested in, talk with Ian Rogers of Haburn Knives (http://www.haburnknives.com/). He's one of the few custom makers without a ridiculously long wait list. Here's an example of patina in progress on a 240 gyuto:



Rick
 
In my experience, the least reactive steel I've used is 52100. It takes a nice looking patina and once you build a patina, it doesn't transfer taste to food. If it's an artisan knife you are interested in, talk with Ian Rogers of Haburn Knives (http://www.haburnknives.com/). He's one of the few custom makers without a ridiculously long wait list. Here's an example of patina in progress on a 240 gyuto:



Rick

The small amount of Cr might help in 52100 to lower its reactivity. That's a nice looking chef knife too!
 
I honestly don't know why people want to bother with the hassles of a carbon steel reactive knife when powder metallurgy steels can out perform them. How high of an HRC does carbon steel go anyway? Some PM steels go all the way to 67 HRC, though I think 63-64 may be more ideal for added toughness.

i bet you i can get even a fujiwara fkh more sharp in way less time than these powder metallurgy steels you refer to.
 
Okay, I can see where this thread is heading to already so I think this article is appropriate.

http://petapixel.com/2012/04/02/if-carpenters-talked-like-camera-geeks/

To OP, I don't think you'll have any problems with taste transfer with any carbon steel knife tbh. Best of luck in your search.

I've got a great camera, a great hammer, a great router, and last but not least great HT with top of line gear so much so that I could buy a house from selling the gear one used market but I enjoy the hobby just like my others....but search before each and every purchase regardless of hobby

http://[URL=http://s855.photobucket.com/user/alford78/media/_DSC5121.jpg.html] [/URL]

http://[URL=http://s855.photobucket.com/user/alford78/media/_DSC5117.jpg.html] [/URL]

http://[URL=http://s855.photobucket.com/user/alford78/media/_DSC5041.jpg.html] [/URL]
 
Well crap. Didn't know the edit function would time out so that post is far from complete and doesn't make much sense lol.

Point was I research everything even down to the $5 light switch. OCD at its finest I suppose.

http://[URL=http://s855.photobucket.com/user/alford78/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image-7.jpg.html] [/URL]

http://[URL=http://s855.photobucket.com/user/alford78/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image-8.jpg.html] [/URL]


http://[URL=http://s855.photobucket.com/user/alford78/media/subs.jpg.html] [/URL]


Just because something is expensive doesn't mean it's great or right for a certain individual. I've read that article before and got a good laugh out of it. But each pic I have posted has had many hours of researching it before finally pulling the trigger. Especially the 4K pj and GTR but even something as small as the Hinderer XM18 3" folder had hours of my time. Hard earned money doesn't just go to the most expensive model in short.

So when I read people complaining about taste from carbon knives I want to find out which does this the least. And with the color change of food prepped the same.

And the steels which continue to react even after a well well formed patina have been discussed so I'd really want to stay as far away from that steel as possible.
 
In my experience, the least reactive steel I've used is 52100. It takes a nice looking patina and once you build a patina, it doesn't transfer taste to food. If it's an artisan knife you are interested in, talk with Ian Rogers of Haburn Knives (http://www.haburnknives.com/). He's one of the few custom makers without a ridiculously long wait list. Here's an example of patina in progress on a 240 gyuto:



Rick

That's a beautiful patina and knife! General use made that patina or did you cut something or force the colors?
 
To OP, I don't think you'll have any problems with taste transfer with any carbon steel knife tbh. Best of luck in your search.

I agree. You might have to be a bit more careful the first time you use it, but it should become manageable with a little time and care. I'd say avoid any knives that are considered particularly reactive (Fujiwara FKH, Tojiro ITK, maybe even Shigefusa, among others), but you should be fine. And I don't think that you typically get lower reactivity with higher price/higher quality. You're paying more for better core steel, forging, heat treatment, grind, fit and finish, etc.
 
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