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Thread: Making Mosaic type Damascus for thin blades.

  1. #11

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    Getting any stock even down to 1/8 with anything other than a power hammer or rolling mill is a pain. that is not an issue if you are buying thin monosteel, but if you are making damascus, you would need to get it down to at least 3/16 and then surface grind it. I have a 20 ton press and it doesn't like to go much below 3-8 to 1/2 on wide stock with the dies that I have now. You end up with a lot of scale on the floor when you go thinner. I am getting a 25 pound Little Giant up and running and that will help, particularly with widening stuff out, but if I had LOTS of money, I would buy a bigger press, like 50 tons, a rolling mill and a Say Mak power hammer tomorrow!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    The process you are listing here is a bit too technical for me, but I would like to comment about thickness. An idea that kitchen knives have to be super thin (2mm and under, unless you are factoring in a distal taper and measuring near the tip) is overrated. Proper grind on a thicker knife will give you a better performance than so called "lasers" and you will get a heft and rigidity. I would not make a knife thinner than 1/8 over the heel (in finished state), as you will get flexing and a flimsy feel - a sign of an inferior knife in my opinion.

    M

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    The process you are listing here is a bit too technical for me, but I would like to comment about thickness. An idea that kitchen knives have to be super thin (2mm and under, unless you are factoring in a distal taper and measuring near the tip) is overrated. Proper grind on a thicker knife will give you a better performance than so called "lasers" and you will get a heft and rigidity. I would not make a knife thinner than 1/8 over the heel (in finished state), as you will get flexing and a flimsy feel - a sign of an inferior knife in my opinion.

    M
    Thanks yeah, I guess i'm going a bit thin for your tastes. I'm forging my damascus blades to about 2.5mm over the heel. I forge a bit of the taper in to so it tapers to say 1.8mm on the spine. After I have cleaned them all off they are just a tad over 2mm on the spine. That is for a little Petty, don't you think a Petty should be thin? I follow what your saying about the grind, because you can still have a thin knife which has too much metal behind the edge. I've not made any Kitchen knives bigger than 200mm or so so have not had any flex issues. Also the Santoku are quite deep with not much distal taper. I Can see the flex becoming a problem on the long thin ones so i'll bear that in mind. Generally I'm making what the customer specifies When they know what they like. If its for me... Well I haven't got round to making any to keep but I test all of what I make, including a Seax I made recently, which at 6mm on the spine and a grind like an axe... I have to say doesn't make a great Kitchen tool

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ******* View Post
    Getting any stock even down to 1/8 with anything other than a power hammer or rolling mill is a pain. that is not an issue if you are buying thin monosteel, but if you are making damascus, you would need to get it down to at least 3/16 and then surface grind it. I have a 20 ton press and it doesn't like to go much below 3-8 to 1/2 on wide stock with the dies that I have now. You end up with a lot of scale on the floor when you go thinner. I am getting a 25 pound Little Giant up and running and that will help, particularly with widening stuff out, but if I had LOTS of money, I would buy a bigger press, like 50 tons, a rolling mill and a Say Mak power hammer tomorrow!!!
    Presses are useless on thin material and red finishing heats. Even at 50 ton they just suck the heat. I just use mine to keep everything flat at this point. Hammer is king for me. Flatting my dies a bit has made things a bit easier. After nearly 10 years of forging tapers I was getting a ridge down the centre of my knives if I was not careful before. I use a little Anyang 40K and they do allot for their size. I've always wanted a big Massey, until I found out how much they can cost to install

  4. #14
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
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    Even on petty I prefer thickness be over 2mm over the heel but I could live with 2mm. Knifes I would use 1/8+ over the heel would be 8-10" range.

    M


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  5. #15

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    I waste a lot of steel I guess because I am not capable of forging to 90-95% of finished size. I guess the upside of doing the old "forge thick and grind thin" thing is that is doesn't take two sharpenings to get to the hard steel on my blades. Any power hammer is good to have. I have asked a number of guys what they would want if they could only have one Little Giant and most said a 50 pounder. I would want a BIG press because you can squish a full stack when doing the initial welding of damascus using a full length set of flat dies, so no shearing of the welds and fanning out the layers on one end when you press the other end like what can happen if you get too aggressive with drawing dies. I actually have a set of beveling dies on my press. They are too wide to really bevel effectively, but they are fantastic for finishing heats because the straighten the edge right out.
    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbybrocks View Post
    Presses are useless on thin material and red finishing heats. Even at 50 ton they just suck the heat. I just use mine to keep everything flat at this point. Hammer is king for me. Flatting my dies a bit has made things a bit easier. After nearly 10 years of forging tapers I was getting a ridge down the centre of my knives if I was not careful before. I use a little Anyang 40K and they do allot for their size. I've always wanted a big Massey, until I found out how much they can cost to install

  6. #16
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    I've been veering away from using my vertical press for the first weld. But I have to be super careful with the thin 1mm bandsaw stock i'm using not to get any nastys trapped in there. I've been doing the first weld by hand so I can be sure I've moved all the flux out without creating any wee bubbles. Second or third heat I square the billet under the press. Then hammer time.

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