Konosuke 24cm gyoto ginsanko rosewood

Hello!

I am new to this forum, and have read quite a bit about proper kitchen knives the last couple of months. I started looking for a new chef's knife, and found Zanmai and Shun. Then I read more about the subject and found that I did not really fancy those knives.

What I have found I really like is Konosuke. I also like the thought of having a semi-stainless laser. I am looking for a 24 cm gyuto with a wa-handle.
I live in Norway, and the knife is for home use. The knives I have today are not worth mention.


Currently, I have the opportunity to buy this one:
http://foodgear.dk/collections/konosuke/products/konosuke-gyuto-ginsan-24-cm-khii-rosentrae

Only 3 left, and if I don't buy it now I will have to wait for several months before a new shipment arrives.

I have four topics I would like comments on:

1) Ferrule
This knife has no ferrule. I worry about the handle being exposed to moisture, juices from foodstuffs etc. resulting in the handle cracking. I inquired the seller, and he said that I needn't worry because the handle surrounds the blade and that this in fact is a complex procedure. I got the impression that Konosuke did this in a certain way which ensures that the handle will not be exposed to cracking.

Do you have any verdict / recommendations here?

2) Experience / knowledge of the knife?
Does anyone here have any experience with this knife?

Ginsanko is a nice semi-stainless steel which sharpens easily. It is 50-50 ground and is not convex, which also means that it is easier to sharpen for an amateur like me.

It is not sanmai, but one solid piece of ginsanko.

Rosewood is beautiful, even though I am not sure if this wood is resilient or not (as compared to pakkawood etc.). If rosewood more easily soaks in water etc, it might perhaps be even more prone to cracking without a ferrule?

I expect that the knife is 61-62 rockwell.

3) Cutting board
What kind of cutting board should I buy? I understand that not all kinds of boards or woods are suitable to quality knives because of the hardness.
I currently have a couple of plastic boards (not going to use them). Also, I have a bamboo board - not sure if that can be used (it is a pretty hard type of wood right?)

I guess I am going to go for a wooden board. But what kinds of woods is suitable?

4) Sharpening
I am going to buy some sharpening equipment. What should I get? I have no experience. Two stones with 1000 and 8000 grit? A tray / holder/stabilizer to rest the stone upon and keep it straight at all times? Perhaps I should have a coarser grit than 1000 as well for straightening out the two higher-grit stones?

Thank you very much for any answers, comments and advice

Sincerely,
Andreas

for the cutting board end-grain maple and cherry are excellent options. I have the former from a maker on the forum (TheBoardSmith).

also with Konosuke I urge you to do your due diligence and not let their availability get the better of your judgment; I just recently made that mistake.

Welcome,

As far as the ferrule goes the end would still be exposed to moisture (unless epoxied like a Takeda knife), as the ferrule is usually constructed as a "ring" which braces the handle material. It is fairly common to rehandle wa style knives so if you have issues (or want to give your knife a makeover) you could get a custom one down the road. I can see where you're coming from but unless you let it soak in a sink and/or use it heavy handed I couldn't really see it cracking, but I've never beaten on any of my knives like this.

I don't have experience with this brand but it comes up fairly often around here so perhaps others will give comment.

1) I like a ferrule, but guess it could crack as easily than the direct wood so I don't think this is an issue. I'm pretty sure Konosuke doesn't have a better way than anyone else in Japan though so not sure about that.
2)Though convex can apply to the edge itself, convex is usually in reference more to the geometry (think of a cross section) which aids in food release--the flatter the face, the more things stick which imo is bad. Don't let convexity intimidate you, you'll be a pro in no time.
3) cutting board of end grain hard wood
4) get a 1000 and a 5 or 6000 stone
5) what monetary unit is listed= how much in usd or euro?
6) welcome to the forum and good luck with your purchase

sanyar said:

I have four topics I would like comments on:

1) Ferrule
This knife has no ferrule. I worry about the handle being exposed to moisture, juices from foodstuffs etc. resulting in the handle cracking. I inquired the seller, and he said that I needn't worry because the handle surrounds the blade and that this in fact is a complex procedure. I got the impression that Konosuke did this in a certain way which ensures that the handle will not be exposed to cracking.

Do you have any verdict / recommendations here?

Click to expand...

The ferrule does not have anything to do with waterproofing. It is there to help prevent splitting the handle when the traditional method of tapping in the heated tang is used. In my experience with other Konosuke knives, the handle is glued in, and the ferrule, if present, is only cosmetic.

2) Experience / knowledge of the knife?
Does anyone here have any experience with this knife?

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I have no experience with this particular knife.

3) Cutting board
What kind of cutting board should I buy? I understand that not all kinds of boards or woods are suitable to quality knives because of the hardness.
I currently have a couple of plastic boards (not going to use them). Also, I have a bamboo board - not sure if that can be used (it is a pretty hard type of wood right?)

I guess I am going to go for a wooden board. But what kinds of woods is suitable?

Click to expand...

The preferred board is an end grain made from maple, walnut or cherry. I would suggest that you buy one locally, as shipping charges from the US are high.

4) Sharpening
I am going to buy some sharpening equipment. What should I get? I have no experience. Two stones with 1000 and 8000 grit? A tray / holder/stabilizer to rest the stone upon and keep it straight at all times? Perhaps I should have a coarser grit than 1000 as well for straightening out the two higher-grit stones?

Click to expand...

I give you an excerpt from Jon Broida's recent post on synthetic stones:

Main Types of Toishi Used Today:

Arato (from about 60-600 grit): Used to form blade shape, repair major damage, and change the geometry (or angle) of cutting edge.

Nakato (around 1000 grit, but can range from 700-2000): Used to erase scratches from the arato, and touch up cutting edge (everyday maintenance).

Shiageto (3000+ grit): Used refine the cutting edge and put a very sharp edge on the blade.

For your needs, a nakato and a shiageto (no higher than 6000) will serve for a long time. You will need some way to flatten them, but that can be a simple as a sheet of wet/dry sandpaper on a heavy piece of glass or ceramic tile. Stone holders are nice, but a wet dishtowel on a short length of wood to raise it off your countertop is perfectly suitable.

Maksim (of Japanese Natural Stones) carries several stones that fit your needs.

Rick

redisburning said:

for the cutting board end-grain maple and cherry are excellent options. I have the former from a maker on the forum (TheBoardSmith).

also with Konosuke I urge you to do your due diligence and not let their availability get the better of your judgment; I just recently made that mistake.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input!

What do you mean? I came to understand that Konosuke was well thought of as a quality brand. Is this not the case? Do you mean that they sometimes produce items of poor quality, either a series itself or one can be unlucky buying a sub-par quality knife within a series?

As for a due diligence, I can't see that I have a lot of ways to do a proper due diligence since I cannot inspect the item in person beforehand. It is located in Denmark, I am in Norway. Also, there doesn't seem to be any reviews of that knife or any other within the series. There are Konosuke ginsan previews, but that concerns an alltogether different knife albeit with the same type of steel.

How do I proceed? Only buy a knife from a series that has been properly reviewed instead of something that can be a new and untried series?

Thanks again

@ tjangula, chinacats and pensacola tiger

Thanks a lot for your advice!

Just to clarify: I am very careful with my existing knives and handle them with care. I wash them from the spine and down the blade to the edge to avoid dulling the blade (nylon scrub, may perhaps start using a sponge or a cloth when I get a new high quality knife). Also, I dry them immediately, touch them up on the steel, and leave them on a magnet block (sadly made of metal without a wooden casing). When I wrote about the handle cracking, I was referring to damage to the handle because of moisture being soaked up over time along with oils from food etc. I.e. not because I manhandle them or hit them with things . It's like a cutting board that is not oiled; after a while being exposed to moisture, the wood shrinks and can crack up a bit.

The cost in danish Crowns: 2599 (as of today, this is 398 USD or 374 EUR). Of course, the actual price will vary because of the knife crossing the borders with outgoing vat (Denmark) and incoming vat (Norway) etc.

sanyar said:

...When I wrote about the handle cracking, I was referring to damage to the handle because of moisture being soaked up over time along with oils from food etc. I.e. not because I manhandle them or hit them with things . It's like a cutting board that is not oiled; after a while being exposed to moisture, the wood shrinks and can crack up a bit.

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That's part of the beauty of wa handles, inasmuch as replacing the handle is relatively easy (compared to a western style). I can't speak from experience, but I think you'd need to be pretty hard on your knife (excessive moisture, professional kitchen environment) to get the kind of problems you're referring too. Rosewood is a fairly popular handle material so I think you may be overthinking the matter.

You may also want to stop using the steel for touch ups if you get some new knives. Depending on the HRC there may be much better options such as stropping or even a Ceramic rod.

I think the intent of the other post was not to rush into a purchase just because of the availability. I don't know if there are any "issues" with the brand. I've made some impulse buys in the past for various reasons and now have a number of knifes I don't use; I guess there's always BST.

I would suggest taking a look at Japanese Natural Stones as Rick suggested. Maxim sells quality gear and he is a trusted vendor here. I believe he is in Denmark and he carries knives that most here would consider top quality. IMO Konosuke has done a very good job of marketing and produces decent but often overrated knives. I believe you can do better for your money.

Also should mention that with Japanese knives you may have to put the steel away as the metal is harder so the edge will not roll--it will microchip instead.

Cheers

BTW, many here oil handles or apply boardwax (a combination of mineral oil and beeswax).

tjangula said:

That's part of the beauty of wa handles, inasmuch as replacing the handle is relatively easy (compared to a western style). I can't speak from experience, but I think you'd need to be pretty hard on your knife (excessive moisture, professional kitchen environment) to get the kind of problems you're referring too. Rosewood is a fairly popular handle material so I think you may be overthinking the matter.

You may also want to stop using the steel for touch ups if you get some new knives. Depending on the HRC there may be much better options such as stropping or even a Ceramic rod.

I think the intent of the other post was not to rush into a purchase just because of the availability. I don't know if there are any "issues" with the brand. I've made some impulse buys in the past for various reasons and now have a number of knifes I don't use; I guess there's always BST.

Click to expand...

Yes, I am going to buy a ceramic rod which also is quite a bit longer than the puny steel I have from when I started studying 12 years ago
Also, I have a leather strop for straight razors which will come in handy (thus far, I have used the steel and then used the jeans I'm wearing as a strop - works wonders on my old knives)
I am comforted by your words concerning the handle. Thanks!

Konosuke seems to be pretty high quality and at the same time a bit more "entry level" than buying the top of the line aogami-knives.

This knife will be my entering the exciting world of japanese craftmanship, and I do wish to add to the collection with a petty, deba, honesuki (after I have practiced my sharpening skills on my old knives), and then buy my first carbon blade (absolutely love them, but won't start off with one). It's much the same with my straight razor which also is carbon; have to be diligent with drying it.

Now I only have to make sure to keep it safe from the others of the household; that's probably the only real danger for the oh so hard edge. *shudder*

sanyar said:

Yes, I am going to buy a ceramic rod which also is quite a bit longer than the puny steel I have from when I started studying 12 years ago
Also, I have a leather strop for straight razors which will come in handy (thus far, I have used the steel and then used the jeans I'm wearing as a strop - works wonders on my old knives)

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If you are already stropping, plan on sharpening yourself, and intend to use this knife as an "entry level" purchase I'd personally skip the ceramic rod. I have one that doesn't get used now, although some people still swear by them.

sanyar said:

What do you mean? I came to understand that Konosuke was well thought of as a quality brand.

How do I proceed? Only buy a knife from a series that has been properly reviewed instead of something that can be a new and untried series?

Thanks again

Click to expand...

see

tjangula said:

I think the intent of the other post was not to rush into a purchase just because of the availability. I don't know if there are any "issues" with the brand. I've made some impulse buys in the past for various reasons and now have a number of knifes I don't use; I guess there's always BST.

Click to expand...

My advice to you is to buy the seller. If you want something bad enough, it can shade your purchase. For the money, I too think you can do better. I'd pursue something with stronger convexing even if you want a thin edge. JMO.

$400 seems a bit expensive, however if the knife is indeed solid Ginsanko and not clad, and seeing that attractive rosewood handle, I would say it may be appropriately priced.

Not being fully familiar with the VAT situation it's hard for many of us (especially from the US) to provide counsel with regard to value. I know that Knife Kulture in Singapore has the much lauded Konosuke 240 in HD semi-stainless steel with a simple Ho wood handle for $274. Very similar knives are produced by Yusuke Sakai and available from eBay merchant bluewayjapan. Both brands exhibit excellent fit and finish. But again, your VAT situation really drives the value.

Cheers,

Rick

This looks a lot like the Kono GS, which is SLD (?). The markings seem to be identical and it's a clad blade (cladding line in the 3rd pic).

VAT in NORWAY is 25% of the total value of the knife

tjangula said:

If you are already stropping, plan on sharpening yourself, and intend to use this knife as an "entry level" purchase I'd personally skip the ceramic rod. I have one that doesn't get used now, although some people still swear by them.

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So you say that one ideally should touch up the knife with a strop, and not first with a rod then a strop? I was thinking that the steel realigns and is more "coarse" than a strop, and that a strop just polishes the edge as a finisher.

Tall Dark and Swarfy said:

$400 seems a bit expensive, however if the knife is indeed solid Ginsanko and not clad, and seeing that attractive rosewood handle, I would say it may be appropriately priced.

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I checked with Konosuke, and they confirmed the knife being sanmai. Dunno what it is clad with, but then the Ginsanko is solely the core steel. A bit disappointing that the seller did not express any doubt when stating that it was not sanmai. I like sanmai as I love the look of the core steel emerging from between the softer steel cladding. Knives made of one piece of steel looks a bit more "dull". From what you said, I gathered that a solid ginsanko objectively speaking would be more expensive than a sanmai with just the core steel as ginsanko. Is this correct?

James said:

This looks a lot like the Kono GS, which is SLD (?). The markings seem to be identical and it's a clad blade (cladding line in the 3rd pic).

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What I noticed was that the knife I linked looked quite different from the other Konosuke GS-knives such as presented here: http://www.**************.com/kosi3.html
The aforementioned has no visible grind/bevel similar to the lastly mentioned ones where the grind starts high up almost at the heel. This made me wonder whether it really is what it is portrayed to be, but what do I know . The aforementioned which I have been looking at seems like a laser, while the lastly mentioned do not look like lasers at all. (Lasers, from what I have gathered, are so thin that a big grind is not possible without making the blade too thin and brittle.

A difference in the knife description is that the one I have been looking at is in addition to "GS" is called "KHII", while the lastly mentioned ones simply is called "ginsan" i.e. the same steel. "KHII" might perhaps simply be a different series with a laser-like characteristic.

supersayan3 said:

VAT in NORWAY is 25% of the total value of the knife

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True. I checked Denmark, and they too have 25 %. But with the decline of the norwegian Krone, importing is quite a bit more expensive now than it used to be. Also, toll charges etc. comes in addition.

I have checked out japanesenaturalstones. The gyutos within my price range (up to about 2500 danish crowns) which seemed likely candidates:

Itinomonn stainless kasumi 240mm wa gyuto 1875 danish crowns. Dunno what kind of steel this is, but it is supposedly semi-stainless. VG1?
Itinomonn kasumi 240mm wa gyuto (V2 with stainless cladding) 1500 danish crowns. V2 with stainless cladding.
Itinomonn kasumi 270mm wa gyuto 2000 danish crowns. V2 with stainless cladding.

270 mm seems a bit long. I have 210 mm knives at the moment, and have read about home cooks preferring 240mm while professionals prefer 270 mm.

Thus far, I have surmised that noobs like me should buy semi-stainless instead of carbon. For this reason I have exclulded all of the knives made of 100 % carbon. I have added some sanmai knives clad with stainless with a carbon core. Perhaps that is something that will work? (easier to keep the edge dry than the whole blade, even though I probably have to wipe it off continuously anyway though. Or perhaps 1) I might end up chipping the carbon because I have to refine my technique with such very hard types of steel, and 2) it may be more difficult to sharpen carbon steel than semi-stainless for an amateur like me? On japanesenaturalstones there are very few stainless 240mm gyutos.

Also, I wish to buy quality and something nice when I first buy a real knife, and the ones above are on the cheaper end of the scale. But perhaps those knives are as good or even better than the Konosuke which is priced a fair bit higher on foodgear.dk.

Once again, thank you so much for your valuable advice thus far. Please indulge me once more - it is greatly appreciated

If you're worried about maintaining carbon then you should buy stainless and not semi-stainless.

Carbon knives are the easiest of all to sharpen.

Monosteel knives are often less expensive than clad.

Cheers

The semi-stainless Itinomonn isn't VG1. The maker doesn't disclose the steel type, but it's from JNS, so it's going to be good stuff. Edge retention is the strong suit on these.

I'd put a far greater tariff on the profile and geometry that the steel type. Never have i read that an Itinomonn is a poor cutter, quite the opposite, as Maksim has them made to his specs and he knows what he is doing.

Stainless-clad carbon is easy to look after.

The handle on the Konosuke is lovely, but it's definitely on the high end of pricing for a zen-ko knife. If you want a Sakai knife of this type, a Sakai Yusuke, JCK Swedish Stainless or Ashi Hamono Ginga can be had for half the price.

chinacats said:

If you're worried about maintaining carbon then you should buy stainless and not semi-stainless.

Carbon knives are the easiest of all to sharpen.

Monosteel knives are often less expensive than clad.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Not really being worried, but I saw these youtube clips of chefs using and demonstrating carbon knives, and they kept wiping them all-of-the-time. I already have a little baby, and if I have to look after the knives to an extreme degree then I thought that I should rather go with semi-stainless. Ordinary stainless seems boring though, and I want to have a proper knife with a hard edge (rockwell 60-62).

I will of course wash the knife and take care of it. With semi stainless, I have the impression that I don't have to wipe it during cutting, but instead wash it and dry it when I have finished cutting and start cooking. But perhaps I should make sure that I finish all cutting first and not keep on cutting a little throughout the cooking procedure before washing a semi-stainless.

Just after the quality, but not having to be extremely diligent in the care during cutting and cooking (if the kids are up to no good, I can't be like "just hold that emergency a couple of minutes while daddy washes his expensive knife"

Timthebeaver said:

The semi-stainless Itinomonn isn't VG1. The maker doesn't disclose the steel type, but it's from JNS, so it's going to be good stuff. Edge retention is the strong suit on these.

I'd put a far greater tariff on the profile and geometry that the steel type. Never have i read that an Itinomonn is a poor cutter, quite the opposite, as Maksim has them made to his specs and he knows what he is doing.

Stainless-clad carbon is easy to look after.

The handle on the Konosuke is lovely, but it's definitely on the high end of pricing for a zen-ko knife. If you want a Sakai knife of this type, a Sakai Yusuke, JCK Swedish Stainless or Ashi Hamono Ginga can be had for half the price.

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What is zen-ko? And what is characteristic of sakai knives? The difference between these styles/types are something I am not familiar with.

Thanks again!

zen-ko = monosteel, not honyaki.

The Konosuke is a monosteel stainless knife made in Sakai. There are many knives out there that are similar (bear in mind Konosuke is a brand, not a knifemaker) but their main defining characteristic is that they are all very thin and light. Generally known as "Lasers" in forum parlance.

Thanks

GS/ginsan/ginsanko/silver-3: seems to have a slightly different composition than SLD. SLD is higher in carbon and lower in chromium. Other than that, the differences are very slight it seems. I would expect the SLD to be slightly more reactive than the GS but possible also a little bit harder?

The Konosuke is called GS, but some seem to think it is SLD.

I found these two sites, which seems to be the same knife, but one stating GS and the other stating SLD as core steel:
http://toshoknifearts.com/shop/knives/konosuke-gs-210-gyuto-khii-rosewood
http://www.japansemessen.nl/a-37322975/konosuke/konosuke-gs-gyuto-chefsmes-240-mm-rosewood/ (name is GS, but steel is said to be SLD. Weird...?)

Any comments on this? (thanks for putting up with my questions)

I wouldn't make the link that GS = Ginsan-ko. It looks awfully like the other GS/SLD knives to me.

Ginsan-ko is a well thought of stainless, SLD is semi stainless. Hardness depends on heat treatment, but realistically both will be in the 60 ballpark. It doesn't really matter.

"Semi-stainless" steels like SLD are no more maintenance than stainless really. It will take a patina, but very slowly relative to e.g. white or blue steel.

I remember a post from Jon a year or so ago that the term "stainless" is for all practical purposes interchangeable with the term "semi-stainless" in regards to kitchen knives.

Ginsanko is a great steel that some knife makers prefer, my favorite example is Gesshin Hide Yanagiba. Also have a Suisin Deba and a Tadasuna INOX suji. Yoshikane (and others) prefer SLD.

daveb said:

I remember a post from Jon a year or so ago that the term "stainless" is for all practical purposes interchangeable with the term "semi-stainless" in regards to kitchen knives.

Ginsanko is a great steel that some knife makers prefer, my favorite example is Gesshin Hide Yanagiba. Also have a Suisin Deba and a Tadasuna INOX suji. Yoshikane (and others) prefer SLD.

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i said what? Stainless is stainless, carbon is carbon. Semi-stainless actually is technically carbon steel in most cases. I might have said that stainless doesnt mean 100% rust resistant though.

I believe the khii refers to the handle. It's something that Tosho has been doing for mostly their Konos and maybe other knives, you can find information over on their site. But if this other shop is doing it for their Konos as well, I'm assuming they're using the same guy. The handles definitely look similar.

edit: http://toshoknifearts.com/news/khii-handles-tosho

sanyar said:

So you say that one ideally should touch up the knife with a strop, and not first with a rod then a strop? I was thinking that the steel realigns and is more "coarse" than a strop, and that a strop just polishes the edge as a finisher.

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There are various takes on what one should/shouldn't do in this regard. I think JKI (think it was here I saw it) has a video on why a steel is a bad idea. Some may use anyways because the knives are only moderate on the HRC scale, and depending on their need (fast paced kitchen?) it may be their best option? YMMV

JBroida said:

i said what? Stainless is stainless, carbon is carbon. Semi-stainless actually is technically carbon steel in most cases. I might have said that stainless doesnt mean 100% rust resistant though.

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OK, I remembered the statement, sort of, but not the context or the smiley (disclaimer?) Probably only remembered it because I like the Gengetsu so well.

daveb said:

OK, I remembered the statement, sort of, but not the context or the smiley (disclaimer?) Probably only remembered it because I like the Gengetsu so well.

5/19/2012
​

​

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i stand corrected... but in the case of the gengetsu, its true... it patinas, but doesnt rust easily

Let me add my suggestion as well:
If you just want a knife for home use with a decent edge holding ability (59+ HRC), then go for the Tojiro DP (western handle) / Zen (japanese handle) knives.
VG-10 core steel (stainless, but holds an edge forever in home environment).
Relatively inexpensive. (Some say, the "best bang for the buck".)
Bought some years ago and still use them to this date even though i purchased some others ever since.
I also think that a 210mm gyuto is just about right at home unless you want to do some carving then a 270mm sujihiki / yanagiba is recommended.
So what i am saying is that you don't have to spend big times to get a decent knife.
I would just go with a 90mm parer and a 210mm gyuto and that's it. (Oh, and a DMT Extra Fine - 2200grit - ceramic rod and you're well off.)
Spend the rest of the money on your family.