Gesshin Uraku Yanagi - the best for $200?

Been eyeing this knife for a while now. Will be getting either a 270 or a 300 soon.

What are your opinions on the best yanagi's around the $200 price range? Uraku yanagi 270mm is $200 and 300mm is $220. Is Uraku single handedly the best yanagi for this price?

Although I have no experience with it, someone I trust greatly speaks most highly of the Kaneshige White #3. Tosho has the 270mm for 175CAD which is around 140USD. Personally I would hold out for a 300mm.

Cheers,

Rick

I don't have any experience here other than to say I trust that Jon wouldn't sell you a knife that hadn't been adequately qc'd. From my understanding, that should cover the problems most people face when they buy inexpensive single bevel knives. You could also have him properly set up the knife for you which would be of high value to me. :2cents:

The kaneshige you speak of is currently out... i also have no experience with the uraku but i am in the same boat and eyeing the same knife. Due to a minor set back ive had to put it on hold for a little whiel but the experience ive had with just asking jon questions have been stellar. I dont think there is a single person on this forum who would not trust anything he sells.

I had what I think was same knife when it was sold as a Yoshihiro(sp?). Very good bang for buck and the only $200 Yani I would consider. Definitely would go for the 300mm. It's a knife you won't regret purchasing and like CC I put some value on having it come from JKI.

$200 is a lot of money for a single knife.

What makes this yanagi the only acceptable one at the $200 price point? There are not a single $200 yanagi's aside from the Uraku with acceptable ff?

If so, shouldn't Uraku yanagi be much much more popular? I rarely see this knife mentioned and talked about.

Most of the posts in KKF are about gyuto/paring/petty so it isn't surprising that we don't see yanagis mentioned too much, let alone the uraku.

$200 is only entry level for a decent yanagi and really, you won't find too many good ones at that price point. A lot of the sub $200 ones that I see mentioned are accompanied by posts about how the buyers either sent them off for adjusting or spent time opening them up. There are a lot of potential problems with single bevels and I don't use them, but if I did, I'd get one from JKI just based off Jon's exception QC and customer service. Just some insurance against getting a FUBAR product. Others that I'd consider are hon kasumi @ EE (http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=90574), Korin's (http://korin.com/Knives/Shiro-ko-Kasumi_3) and maybe Tanaks.

Fantality said:

What are your opinions on the best yanagi's around the $200 price range? Uraku yanagi 270mm is $200 and 300mm is $220. Is Uraku single handedly the best yanagi for this price?

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You ask a question then you argue with anwers? :justkidding:


It's a long, thin blade thats gotta be straight and well ground. It's gotta be opened up to work at it's best. I'm pleasantly surprised that they sell the Uraku for $200 and change. d You could no doubt find cheaper, but what are you going to do when your knife gets to KC and is bent? Fish sticks to it? Handle is cracked? You want to re-sell it?

You make it seem like any knife not personally sold by JKI should just be thrown back into the smelter.

I've visited the old JKI shop and met Jon personally and have nothing but positive things to say. I will hit up his new Beverly Hills location next month. But some of the hyperbole I'm seeing may come across as shilling and actually cheapen his brand.

Would I buy from JKI with unfailing confidence? Hell yeah! Is he the only game in town? Nope!

Cheers,

Rick

Tall Dark and Swarfy said:

You make it seem like any knife not personally sold by JKI should just be thrown back into the smelter.

I've visited the old JKI shop and met Jon personally and have nothing but positive things to say. I will hit up his new Beverly Hills location next month. But some of the hyperbole I'm seeing may come across as shilling and actually cheapen his brand.

Would I buy from JKI with unfailing confidence? Hell yeah! Is he the only game in town? Nope!

Cheers,

Rick

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I believe that you are bringing up an interesting/valid point here...I buy from Jon and many others as well. If the op is looking for something like a single bevel knife (all including expensive ones are known to have potential problems with qc) then the safest purchase is a vendor known specifically for his qc--in this case Jon (we do have a lot of really good vendors at kkf that also do a great job of qc).

If someone is shopping for a gyuto, then the available options increase and in fact I feel confident recommending any of the vendors on this site as well as some that are not forum vendors. Depending on the op knowledge it is often a good call to send them to Jon because imo he is the best at 'fitting a knife' to a user.

Just an opinion, but I do agree with what you say about the appearance of shilling. I too read some threads and go wow, there are other options, in this case though I believe that the people making those suggestions have a very good reason to recommend Jon (great customer experiences). I know that I can be one of those people but it is strictly driven by 100% positive experiences with his store. One of the many things that drove me away from the online vendor that is specifically not known for his qc was the shilling that went on at first sites that pop up when googling Japanese kitchen knives...I'm guessing everyone here knows who I am referencing?

Cheers

Chinacats, you also make a point whereas single bevels are a specialty within a specialty and buying from an expert is a good added assurance that all will be right. Jon is that expert.

The Kaneshige can't be horrible OOTB though since it comes from the parent of Konosuke. It's true that when it comes to opening the knife you're probably on your own, unless you find a vendor who offers that service and is actually skilled.

The other vendor you speak of? I don't get involved with that tiresome spat.

Cheers,

Rick

Can I ask what do you mean by opening the knife?

krx927 said:

Can I ask what do you mean by opening the knife?

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Some Japanese knives, and especially the single beveled ones, are sold semi-sharpened, leaving it to the end user to establish the cutting edge to their preference. An important task and one that may be best left to a pro depending upon your level of skill.

I'm not certain if a knife intended for sale to a western market would require opening or be sold fully sharpened.

Cheers,

Rick

OK, now it's clear. I did not know this is called opening.

I've heard about this described as giving opportunity to people cutting the edge of their preference. But just the other day I was reading somewhere (here?) that makers do this in order to avoid any scratches after the knife is polished.
What is your opinion gents?

krx927 said:

OK, now it's clear. I did not know this is called opening.

I've heard about this described as giving opportunity to people cutting the edge of their preference. But just the other day I was reading somewhere (here?) that makers do this in order to avoid any scratches after the knife is polished.
What is your opinion gents?

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I call BS on that. An individual highly skilled at sharpening, will not leave said scratches on said knife. However, I do follow the logic of setting your own bevels. I've only owned a few single bevel knives (Azai 270 yani, Watanabe 210 mioroshi, Doi 300 sakimaru takobiki), but to me it's very apparent that the work involved to make these knives is a bit more intensive than your average western(gyuto, petty, suji). So you really do pay for what you get in many respects. I think the field is far wider when it comes to quality (for price) budget western knives.

krx927 said:

Can I ask what do you mean by opening the knife?

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A Shiro-ko Hongasumi has a finer finish fully sharpened and cost more because of this. The Shiro-ko Kasumi often is the same quality white steel but less finished.

The Uraku is Shiro-ko steel at 200.00 270mm it is a good buy. If you work in a Sushi place, you must have someone who knows how to sharpen single bevel. In any case Jon is an expert at single bevel sharpening. He has online SB sharpening videos. I would give him a call.

Agree that buying a Yanagiba under 200.00 is a crap shoot. When bought my first quality yanagiba went to a couple sushi chefs to learn how to sharpen it. Now really enjoy sharpening SB knives.

Why do so many people make sharpening sb knives sound so difficult?

I've seen video tutorials for sharpening sb knives. I've also learned how to sharpen a sb knife from an experienced chef rather easily and have sharpened many times in the past.

I know I'm using the basic method of sharpening the sb knife and that there are much more advanced ways to sharpening sb knives but basic sharpening gets the job done.

So when people talk about how sharpening sb knives is very difficult, are they talking about just sharpening in general or specifically advanced methods?

Fantality said:

So when people talk about how sharpening sb knives is very difficult, are they talking about just sharpening in general or specifically advanced methods?

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Rocket science is difficult. Sharpening is not. But there are nuances. Lots of nuances. Knowing all those nuances is what differentiate a skilled sharpener from a rookie one.

If you just need to put a sharp edge on a single bevel knife you could do that rather easily. But proper maintaining of SB geometry is bit more complex. Again, not a rocket science, but something that you need to learn.

Sharpening is not a rocket science , it is feel and muscle memory

chefcomesback said:

Sharpening is not a rocket science , it is feel and muscle memory

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I feel that muscle memory is more important for double bevel knives because you rely on muscle memory to remember where the bevel is to sharpen the edge. I think feel/touch and technique is more important for single bevel knives. Single bevel knives usually have two bevels and it's a matter of putting a correct amount of pressure and following those bevels and correctly sharpening both bevels and doing uraoshi.

If you care about how your single bevel knives look, stone choice is more important than for double bevel knives.

Fantality said:

Why do so many people make sharpening sb knives sound so difficult?

I've seen video tutorials for sharpening sb knives. I've also learned how to sharpen a sb knife from an experienced chef rather easily and have sharpened many times in the past.

I know I'm using the basic method of sharpening the sb knife and that there are much more advanced ways to sharpening sb knives but basic sharpening gets the job done.

So when people talk about how sharpening sb knives is very difficult, are they talking about just sharpening in general or specifically advanced methods?

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What do you mean by basic method?

Push with pressure applied and pull with none.

Fantality said:

Push with pressure applied and pull with none.

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There's a LOT more to "basic" sharpening than that.

Fantality said:

Push with pressure applied and pull with none.

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Only push stroke I use is Uraoshi side flat to the stone with light pressure.

Bevel side pressure on trailing stroke first fingerpads higher for shinoge & then lower near the edge. With edge bevel should aim for even burr heel to tip. You can add a third microbevel for edge stability. I was not taught Micro & my yanagiba cut very well.

Uraoshi side is very lite pressure for burr removal & a couple more sweeps. Don't want to mess up the hollow grind that enables separation of fish on slicing stroke.