Petty 210 recommendations?

LOCATION
What country are you in?
The Netherlands

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Petty knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
210 mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Yes (not 100% sure but I think it is best because I will also use it on acidic fruits)

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$500

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing/cutting meats or fish. Cutting fruit, vegetables and herbs.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Hammer grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push-cut

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
A very thin blade. The steel needs to be able to take the sharpest edge possible. Easy to sharpen.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Aesthetics are not very important.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
The handle has to be very comfortable and preferably octagonal. I prefer a light knife.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
The knife should cut like a laser with no wedging and no stiction. Reactivity wih food is not preferable.
Sharpening should be easy

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
A couple of months

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
No (end grain walnut cuttingboard)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
First thing that comes to mind is a Suisin Inox Honyaki petty. But I am only used to sharpening double bevel knives 50/50.

I would suggest a suisin inox honyaki. I absolutely love mine. Also I'm pretty sure they are double bevel. Jon at jki has some in stock. He is awesome to do business with.

I have read on some websites that they need to be sharpened 90/10, that kinda steered me away from them.

If its anything like my gyuto 50/50 is fine. It is a great performer.

Richard78 said:

I have read on some websites that they need to be sharpened 90/10, that kinda steered me away from them.

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There is a lot of misinformation on the internet, including what you read.

Richard78 said:

I have read on some websites that they need to be sharpened 90/10, that kinda steered me away from them.

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I have the 240 Gyuto and....no. I would also suggest you consider the Ginga from JKI.

I owned a Suisin IH Petty for awhile. Nice knife but a little too much flex for me to use as "mini" suji and not enough clearance for much board work. Don't remember anything extreme about sharpening it.

You prob know how cost prohibitive it is to ship a knife from the US to Europe and from previous posts I've seen you've had knives from JNS. I would definitely contact Maksim and see what he has. A couple of new vendors here from AU may be able to ship to you without too high shipping costs.

Finally if I had 500 USD to drop on a petty I would be all over the Gesshin Kagekiyo regardless of where I lived. My knife budget is blown through 2018 but one day.....

Gesshin Ginga was my first idea, the second was a Konosuke HD, Tosho seems to have some in stock: http://toshoknifearts.com/shop/knives/konosuke-210mm-hd2-petty-yew

But for 500 dollar, the Kagekiyo would certainly be a great option, but for me, its too much for a knife that I wouldn't use very often (which obviously might be different in your case)...

And if you would like to get a carbon, I personally like the look of the Konosuke Fujiyama line that, however, is considered to be quite reactive...

The only knock I forgot to mention on the SIH is the exposed machi for some people its fine and I understand why they do it. I just get pinched sometime when I pick the knife up in a hurry.

Thanks everybody for clearing up the asymmetry misinformation.
@Zwiefel, I have been looking at the Ginga aswell but they are not in stock at the moment.
@Daveb, I would like to use the SIH petty as a small suji till I buy a 270 suji. Does it flex so much that it will influence steering while slicing?
Shipping from the US to here is really expensive, strangely way more expensive than the other way around.
I have checked Maxim's website out but he does no have any 210 petty in stock currently. I never purchased knives from him before I bought some knives from a Swiss company. But as soon as Maxim has any Shigefusa Kitaejis I might:biggrin:
That Gesshin Kagekiyo looks very interesting. I saw them before but I overlooked that there was a ginsanko version. Only with shipping and importtax it will be over twice as expensive as the SIH. I can get a SIH from France for 265 dollars delivery included.

@Cheeks1989, I have seen that machi gap. But I never do anything in a hurry so I do not think that will bother me.

@Krakorak, If the Konosuke Fujiyama came in Ginsanko it would be my first choice. I would love to try something from that line.
And since I use the knife a lot for fruit like pineapple carbon does not seem like a good idea.
I think the Kagekiyo will end up too expensive but the Kono HD is a great option aswell. And I can buy it here in Europe so that saves lots in import tax.

Richard78 said:

Thanks everybody for clearing up the asymmetry misinformation.
@Zwiefel, I have been looking at the Ginga aswell but they are not in stock at the moment.

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Regarding the Ginga: Have you tried asking Ashi Hamono directly? I own two Ginga Petty, both ordered directly from Ashi in Japan and I pretty much use them in a home kitchen them same way you plan to. Both Wa-handle & swedish steel.... the 210 is the vanilla 59 HRC, the 150 has the extra hardness upgrade (61)...basically what JKI sells minus the saya. 210 gets used a lot as both a slicer and a all purpose knife (more often than not replacing my Gyutos and Santokus if the amount of prep work isn't that much), the 150 is my weapon of choice for (acid) fruits like oranges, grapefruit and small batches of vegis (say the stuffing for a sunday breakfast bun, filled with egg, tomato, cucumber and small radish). Pretty sure that's also -sadly- the more economical choice and cheaper than both a Kono or Suisin, even with shipping & EU import fees. The 210 has a bit of flex, but not so much that it bothers me during normal use.

@Karnstein, Thanks for the great advice. I will send him an email.:doublethumbsup:

I love the sih as a small suji. It doesn't have knuckle clearance but I wouldn't expect it to. Bit of flex but it doesn't seem to bother me when slicing, even in a hurry. Great for citrus, pineapple, silver skin, slicing proteins on line even with some crust, and the best knife I've ever tried on raw scallops. I keep it asymmetrically sharpened and it's so thin I don't notice any steering. Sharpens up fantastically easy too.

@Pleue, That sounds really positive. I have read that if you sharpen it asymmetrically that it will take the sharpest edge.
But than again I have read so much about asymmetric bevels the last days that I kinda lost track:biggrin:

Richard78 said:

@Krakorak, If the Konosuke Fujiyama came in Ginsanko it would be my first choice. I would love to try something from that line.
And since I use the knife a lot for fruit like pineapple carbon does not seem like a good idea.
I think the Kagekiyo will end up too expensive but the Kono HD is a great option aswell. And I can buy it here in Europe so that saves lots in import tax.

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Yeah, I probably know where could you buy that Kono HD..but they seem to have (if it is that Dutch shop) only the western handled version...

By the way - if you aim to replace this 210 mm petty later with a 270 mm sujihiki, there is already an option for that: http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de/Koc...linge--handgeschmiedet-und--signiert-642.html

They also sell a 24 cm non-damascus version of the same line, I recently consider to try a 15 cm Ginsanko (Gingami-3 is another name for Ginsanko, as far as I know) petty from it...

Itinomonn 210mm petty sufi which unfortunately is not in stock at JNS.

Very impressed with it .Thanks to Wildboar i got to try it and its a solid knife that won't brake the bank.

Krakorak said:

By the way - if you aim to replace this 210 mm petty later with a 270 mm sujihiki, there is already an option for that: http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de/Koc...linge--handgeschmiedet-und--signiert-642.html

They also sell a 24 cm non-damascus version of the same line, I recently consider to try a 15 cm Ginsanko (Gingami-3 is another name for Ginsanko, as far as I know) petty from it...

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I visit that website often. That suji is beautiful. There are multiple names for that steel I guess. I think Silver-3 is the same thing also.

Richard78 said:

I visit that website often. That suji is beautiful. There are multiple names for that steel I guess. I think Silver-3 is the same thing also.

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Yeah, me too, but they have relatively often some interesting new knives, for instance I don't think they had that Ginsanko petty I am interested in when I visited the website last time..

I would keep an eye on Blueway Japan for a Sakai Yusuke 210 Suji in Swedish Stainless. Octagonal handle and laser profile. Currently only in White Steel, but stock seems to update fairly often.

I have a couple of Yusukes and they are great cutters in stainless or white steel. The extra garden stainless at 61hrc is, well, hard.

Good luck!

Blueway Japan is a great supplier I have bought some stones and a Tojiro gyuto to practice sharpening on. I have seen the Sakai Yusukes they look great.
They seem to have almost the same profile as the Kono HD2, Gesshin Ginga and SIH.

+1 for Blueway Japan. Bought a Ashi Ginga white#2 120mm petty and its awesome. The Sakai Yusukes they carry are very good price compare to some of the alternativs.

I have the 210 Suisin IH petty, as well as a 240 FKM suji, 270 FKM suji, 270 Kono HD & a 300 Kono white#2

The SIH is very, very lightweight. I am a suji user as all-purpose knife, and thought the SIH would be what I would go to most often at home. However, it is has a bit more flex and feels kind of whimsy than even a typical laser (but my Kono HD 270 also has slight flex to it.

My Suisin is one of the best knives I've used for more delicate/precise work. It is like magic on oranges getting them to perfectly thin pulp/'vein' free sections (my technique is different from how I've seen most do supremes). I like to make what I call "fruit sushi" with it (~2mm slice of apple as the rice/platform, thin orange slice on top of that as the raw fish, and then usually top it off with a contact-lense sized blue grape slice and a little piece of strawberry on the grape to finish it off). Then eat in all one bite (no chop sticks required, unless you feeling frisky). Beautiful colors, tastes delicious and is healthy for you.

Thanks everybody for the great comments. I have chosen to buy the Gesshin Ginga 210 petty (59 HRC) straight from Ashi Hamono.
The choice was between te SIH and the Ginga, all other knives you suggested were not available at the moment or became to expensive with shipping and import tax.
I have chosen the Ginga because it is relatively cheap but gets really good reviews and saves me some money I can use for purchasing my first Sujihiki.
Pictures will follow when the knife arrives.

Richard78 said:

Thanks everybody for the great comments. I have chosen to buy the Gesshin Ginga 210 petty (59 HRC) straight from Ashi Hamono.
The choice was between te SIH and the Ginga, all other knives you suggested were not available at the moment or became to expensive with shipping and import tax.
I have chosen the Ginga because it is relatively cheap but gets really good reviews and saves me some money I can use for purchasing my first Sujihiki.
Pictures will follow when the knife arrives.

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Congratulations on your decision and purchase, but to be accurate, you bought a Ginga, not a Gesshin Ginga. A small, but important distinction.

Rick

The Gessin Ginga from JKI is all 61 HRC I believe and with better fit and finish.

The regular Ginga from Ashi can be ordered with 61 HRC as well. At least the one I bought from Blue Way claims to be hardened to 61.

The regular Ginga petty that I own has nice fit and finish on the blade (nicely rounded spine and choil similar to my Kono) but the handle is quite terrible. The Ho handle is not flush with the ferrule and there are big gaps between the ferrule and handle. I'm not sure if mine is an exception or the norm.

Thanks Rick.
@Wind88. I hope the handle will be better than yours. The 61HRC was not in stock and would take between 10 and 12 weeks extra.
I just use the knive in a home environment, I hope 59HRC will be good enough.

wind88 said:

The regular Ginga petty that I own has nice fit and finish on the blade (nicely rounded spine and choil similar to my Kono) but the handle is quite terrible. The Ho handle is not flush with the ferrule and there are big gaps between the ferrule and handle. I'm not sure if mine is an exception or the norm.

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I would guess it's an exception... a whole bunch of German knife-geeks from the "Messerforum" have purchased quite a good amount of Ginga knives directly from Ashi over the course of the last months. Fit&Finish incl. the ho-handles were quite good from what I've seen and read. Couple of guys went all out and ordered theirs with ebony-wood handles, which all looked quite nicely done to me. Think we only had a single bad one, which was a yew-wood handle and got send back and upgraded to a ebony wood one, which turned out well. F&F on the Yo-handled ones seemed to be a bit less impressive, but the Wa-versions didn't seem to be that far away from the quality standard of the Gesshin Ginga. Right now they are one of the most mentioned knives for questionnaires who are looking for wa-handles gyutos with a preference for a laser-ish profile.

Had the chance to visit a fellow knife nut in the nearby town I commute to for attending University and between us two we own 7 Wa-handled Ashis and none has the deficits yours has... I also own a Konosuke with a Ho&buffalo horn handle, which is imho pretty much flawless done...if I would rate that one a 9.5 out of 10, the handles on my two ashis are at least a 8.5 if not a 9...ferrule&handle are flush, not gaps and like yours spine&choil are rounded...