[Tru-Oil] Horn Ferrule

Hi there,

I have two new knives with bare ho wood handles and buffalo horn ferrules that I would like to coat with Tru-Oil. While there has been many discussions on this subject, there is one particular point that I have not managed to find any information on and that would be in regards to approaching the horn ferrule. I am not familiar with how horn reacts to oil in general, but I would like to ask what would be the best procedure. Should I be considering the entire handle as a whole, coating and lightly sanding it all between coats? Or should I only coat and and work on the the ho wood?

Any further advice is more than welcome.

Thanks!

Tru-oil is basically linseed oil, as I understand it. You should have no problem coating both the handle and the ferrule. Depending on how polished the horn already is (and how dense), you may need to thin the tru-oil some to get it to absorb. Turpentine or mineral spirits are probably best but you'd have to check their website to see what solvent is best. Keep in mind, thinning it will extend the time it takes to dry and harden.

As for sanding - waterbased finishes raise the wood grain and need to be sanded between coats early on to keep the wood smooth. Surface coating oil finishes (varnishes, shellac, lacquer, danish oil ) are sanded to level them and remove any surface irregularities or things that stick in the finish while drying. With a penetrating drying oil like tru-oil, a little sanding can be helpful for a smooth finish but with wiped on coats is rarely needed. it is more a factor of what texture you want for the final result, or how much sheen you want to bring out. If you want to take it to a glossier finish...it's best to wait a week to two weeks for the finish to fully cure and harden before doing any polishing or very high grit sanding.

If you google oil finishes and horn I'm guessing you'll find a lot of detail from other types of knife making and art projects. Oil is, I believe, a pretty common protective sealant for bone and horn items.

CPD,

Thank you for the guidelines.

For sanding, it will be to remove the particles that will have set in the oil; my place tends to be dusty. I am not interested in having a super smooth final texture, but I do want to reduce the sheen in favor of a matte-ish finish. I am doing this more to provide some protection, rather than for looks.

_PixelNinja said:

CPD,

Thank you for the guidelines.

For sanding, it will be to remove the particles that will have set in the oil; my place tends to be dusty. I am not interested in having a super smooth final texture, but I do want to reduce the sheen in favor of a matte-ish finish. I am doing this more to provide some protection, rather than for looks.

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Glad to help. Based on your goal, I'd probably give it a light quick sanding with 400 and 600 grit paper before oiling. You can use mineral oil as a lubricant if doing wet, or just dry. Clean any dust with some alcohol...and give it fifteen or twenty minutes to gas-out and dry before oiling. With oil, you will likely need several coats. I'd put the first one on thinned by about 30% so that it penetrates more deeply...especially the horn. Then add several more coats. I wouldn't bother sanding to remove any dust nibs until you're just before the final coat. Then wet-sand with mineral oil and 600 grit to knock off anything...apply one last coat of oil.

One safety side note -- be careful with the rags from the oil. Linseed oil gives off heat when it dries and a soaked rag, balled up so the heat is concentrated can smolder, flash and combust. It can take a couple hours but it will burn. There are lots of video demos around the net of it. Best to lay the wet rags flat - don't ball them up - and away from anything flammable.

CPD,

I would like to ask — what would be your rationale behind sanding only before the final coat, as apposed to between coats?

It's been my experience that horn doesn't absorb anything. I like to use a buffer to put a mirror polish on it.

_PixelNinja said:

CPD,

I would like to ask — what would be your rationale behind sanding only before the final coat, as apposed to between coats?

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The short answer: The logic is drawn from a combination of how oil finishes work and the end goal you mentioned of having the handle be matte and not too smooth. Wanted to give you a recipe that will work without unneeded labor.

The more technical rationale on how oil finishes work: To oversimplify for a somewhat quick explanation, there are two primary types of wood finishes: penetrating oils and surfaces films. Penetrating oils, which include linseed oil, mineral oil, walnut oil and tung oil, don't create much of a film on the surface of your project. They mostly soak in and saturate. While they do dry, and leave some surface presence, it's insignificant and relatively soft. Comparatively, finishes like shellac, varnish, lacquer etc create a hardened surface layer of finish that can be built up in layers - the surface film. Sanding finishes between coats can serve three main purposes: leveling uneven applications (or filling pores), removing inclusions (dust etc), or prepping the surface so a new coat will adhere on top of it.

With penetrating oil finishes that are wiped on there isn't need to prep the surface for adhesion nor much leveling needed. That leaves sanding for inclusions and cleanup purposes.
You could sand between applications to clean and improve the surface but the sand paper may leave behind grit residue trapped in the oil, the oil will gum up your paper....and you won't get much noticeable benefit from the trouble. My experience, one pass toward the end of the process gets that job done and minimizes both the effort and the frustrations.

If you wanted to go old school: the more traditional recipe for oil finishes I'm familiar with (not necessarily handles, but in general), is to wipe on a bunch, wait 10 or 15 minutes, wipe on more...and keep repeating until the oil no longer absorbs. Then let it sit a while (where a while might be a few hours or days depending on the oil you are using and the wood). Stage 2, you'd use sand paper (600 grit would be my choice), and a fresh coat of your oil to "sand in" more oil. Some will use steel wool to buff instead. The "sanding in" process helps clog up any open wood pores which is needed when your goal is a very smooth surface with sheen (if you were using figured woods or open pored woods, a grain filling process would likely be used before oiling). Another coat or coats later, and the project gets set aside to dry..potentially for days. Next, you'd rub the finish with high grit papers and/or a rottenstone/mineral oil paste to polish it.....finally, a wax coat if desired .

Back to your project - for a ho wood handle and your goals, that whole traditional woodworking recipe would be overkill. You're not trying to "pop" the grain pattern or add sheen and depth to Ho wood, so a much more efficient method cuts out most of the sanding-in process. Because you don't want to make your handle slippery you also don't need the fine sanding/polishing stages ...

I haven't used tru-oil in a while but as I recall it's a linseed oil based product that has dryers to speed up the drying time, and also maybe some varnish elements to give it a little more of a film. It's pretty sticky and it dries much glossier than pure oil. It is easier to work with too. Thinning the first coast will allow you to get better penetration and a smoother finish. Sanding after the final coating dries will knock any gloss down....

There are tons of different finishing processes people prefer...one person's ideal method is somebody's mistake. As long as the end result is what you like and wanted, all good...

I'm going with Rick on this one Not sure hwther it absorbs anything, but it would be minimal from what I have seen. After applying my tung oil based finish I usually rub the pieces down with 0000 steel wool as a last step. I do not see a difference in horn with or without oil application after that, oil does not seem to penetrate and I basically cut it all off again with the steel wool. Stimulates the scientist in me to measure absorbtion, but I need a new ultra percise weight scale first...

Stefan

P.S. Had not yet seen CPD's last reply when writing this.

apicius9 said:

I'm going with Rick on this one Not sure hwther it absorbs anything, but it would be minimal from what I have seen. After applying my tung oil based finish I usually rub the pieces down with 0000 steel wool as a last step. I do not see a difference in horn with or without oil application after that, oil does not seem to penetrate and I basically cut it all off again with the steel wool. Stimulates the scientist in me to measure absorbtion, but I need a new ultra percise weight scale first...

Stefan

P.S. Had not yet seen CPD's last reply when writing this.

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Stefan, I am far from expert when it comes to the horn part of the equation and trust your experience on that. I know old horn razor scales that are dried out with time do soak up oil... but polished, newer horn ...think minimal is right.

For the original poster, I think the moral of the story is: don't worry about oil getting on the horn. If some absorbs, awesome...if it doesn't, you've lost nothing....and steel wool or very high grit paper will balance out sheen between teh parts.

Thanks to all of you for chiming in.

I applied the first coat on the whole handle, including the horn, and left it to dry for nearly a whole day. I was going to jump the intermediate sanding as suggested at first, but upon inspection there was too much dust particles stuck in the oil to my liking. I took some 1000 grit sand paper to gently sand them out and this is where I came across my first issue and frustration : doing this has marked the horn. It looks like deposit from the sand paper has mingled with the oil (I am not sure this is actually the case) leaving grey/white streaks. I tried to see if wiping the handle with alcohol would do anything, but the marks reappear once the the alcohol evaporates. Ugh.

I am not a bit fan of sanding with oil - it works but it's such a mess, especially with the high grits... But no need to worry, the horn may look a little rougher than the wood until you really polish it up. While steel wool is also a bit icky to work with, it really smoothes out the horn. In contrast to sanding paper, steel wool actually cuts more than it sands and it leaves a nice finish. Use the finest one (marked '0000') as the last step. There is contradicting info about the 'grit equivalent' of steel wool out there. Most sources say it's somewhere around 800-1000 grit, but because of the cutting vs. sanding I find it leaves a smoother finish on horn than 1000 grit paper. After than you can apply a bit of wax and rub it down for a better shine and grip. It's a bit pricy but I really have come to like Renaissance Wax for that final rub.
HTH,

Stefan

Here is a picture of the marks :



This is lightly sanded with 1000 grit then wiped with a lint-free cloth dabbed in some mineral spirit.

Through experimentation I found the marks go away with the following coat. Since I am inexperienced, I thought I might have done something wrong.

Stefan,

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. If you do not mind, I would have a few questions :

• How easy to repair is wax in case of blemishes (these knives will be used in a professional environment) ?
• Where I live, access to material such as very high grit wool and sandpaper or synthetic wool is scarce without having to pay a lot and/or buy in bulk. I have however found someone who sells small Mirka Abralon sanding pads in grits of 2000 and 4000 for a very reasonable price. Keeping in mind what you said about the differences between sand paper and wool, do you think this could be an acceptable substitute to high grit steel wool?

_PixelNinja said:

Through experimentation I found the marks go away with the following coat. Since I am inexperienced, I thought I might have done something wrong.

• How easy to repair is wax in case of blemishes (these knives will be used in a professional environment) ?
• Where I live, access to material such as very high grit wool and sandpaper or synthetic wool is scarce without having to pay a lot and/or buy in bulk. I have however found someone who sells small Mirka Abralon sanding pads in grits of 2000 and 4000 for a very reasonable price. Keeping in mind what you said about the differences between sand paper and wool, do you think this could be an acceptable substitute to high grit steel wool?

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The wax is merely a protective coating (and it can help with grip texture). You can periodically refresh it, or redo it. renaissance wax, the brand Stefan mentioned is amazing stuff. It's intended use is museum/antique conservation...it's expensive but a little goes a long long way. It does a great job as a final protection layer.

as for sanding vs wool..... There are differences but I don't think they matter here enough to be a concern. You mentioned earlier that your main goal was a protective finish. You'll achieve your goal and have a nice looking finish with any of the methods or tips mentioned throughout the string. I'd use the abralon if I was in your position. You'll get a great result. You're not going to harm your handle based on what you choose at these grit levels....you'll get a good result regardless. go with what's local and have at it.

As to Paper vs wool from a technical standpoint if you want to know the reasoning - paper is a consistent abrasive (size of grit and pattern of grit) whereas steel wool is more varied in pattern, you'll have the ends of strands, the middles, bundles etc. Sanding with paper, especially when done with the grain, will leave you a microscopic "scratch pattern" of relatively straight lines. The higher the grit you go to, the smaller the scratches become. The steel wool in contrast will stay at a single grit, and because of that varied texture, will create more swirls and cut differently. You won't really notice these patterns by touch - they'll both be smooth. But the way they reflect light will impact gloss of the finish. This matters when you are working with highly figured woods, or otherwise trying to pop the grain and make the materials stand out.

CPD,

Thank you very much for taking time to go into detail — I am always interested in the reasoning! I'm glad I joined KKF; I've learned a lot from you guys already solely through this thread.

With my goal in mind, would you recommend going with the 2000, the 4000 or both sanding pads? Also, would it be better to rub with the grain or to swirl the pad along the horn and wood for the final coat in your opinion?

Sorry for being that annoying kid who goes "Why? Why? Why?"

_PixelNinja said:

With my goal in mind, would you recommend going with the 2000, the 4000 or both sanding pads? Also, would it be better to rub with the grain or to swirl the pad along the horn and wood for the final coat in your opinion?

Sorry for being that annoying kid who goes "Why? Why? Why?"

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IMO it doesn't make any sense to go higher than 1000grit for simple wood and horn. They simply don't have the figure that you could reveal by high grit polishing.
Don't over think it. Some basic polish and wax would do the trick (Renaissance wax is superb indeed)

The problem is that 1000 grit leaves unsightly marks on the oiled horn, as shown in the picture above. While I am not doing this for looks, I do want to do the job properly and get as close as my capabilities will allow me to what one would expect from a professionally finished product.

_PixelNinja said:

The problem is that 1000 grit leaves unsightly marks on the oiled horn, as shown in the picture above.

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The majority of answers thus far have been about process and techniques in general or answering a specific question. In light of your last post here, I went back and reread the prior threads and looked at the picture you posted again.
Having done that, I think getting the result you want right now is actually not about going forward to the next steps in progression as if following a recipe but going backward to a step that might need adjustment.

Specifically, I think you began sanding much too soon and the oil was still drying. Penetrating oil finishes can potentially take days to fully cure , and even when fully dry they're still relatively soft finishes. Sanding at less than a day, especially at the horn area where you were not likely to get as significant penetration, was very likely much too soon. Now I can't tell this for sure from a picture but the scratches you are seeing on the horn, I think, are actually in the oil not so much the horn itself. To fix it, you need to level out the scratches, of fill the valleys with another coat of finish, or both depending on their depth (which I also can't tell from the picture).

Wax may well fill the valleys and give you what you want. ...but the negative is, if the wax doesn't give the final result, it's more effort to pull it back and adjust the base finish below it. If it was me, I'd go with the wax on a ho wood handle and not worry much about it. If it didn't cure it, I'd use and enjoy the knife for a while and six months or a year down the road when it's do for a refresher, I'd correct it then. On a fancy heirloom type handle, I'd likely put in more effort to get it right up front. Each there own, though, when it comes to what you want to put the time into.

Here's what I'd do if you want to try and backtrack to fix it (and assuming you don't have a polishing wheel on a bench grinder, or other power buffing/polishing tools):
To level the scratches some, 1000 grit should be more than enough. (Steel wool does work great, but use what you have). Staying in the direction of the grain is fine -give it a gentle wet sanding now that it's sat a few days. Wipe off any residue. Next take an old piece of denim or another rough-ish fabric and buff/rub (any directions you want) ...use a drop or two of mineral oil (butcher block oil) while doing this to lubricate things so you don't accidentally make scratches. See where you are when looking at it dry. May be all you needed, or not. (Added note - If you're feeling very cautious, you can start with the fabric and only hit it with the 1000 if you feel it's not making a difference).

If you still see the marks, meaning they didn't buff out, though they might still disappear with a wax coat, you can get rid of them for certain by adding a final "wash coat" of the tru-oil. take the oil, thin it down a little (maybe add 10% thinner), and wipe on an extremely thin coat with a lint free rag that you balled up. Try and do this in as dust free an environment as you can find. Let that coating sit for several hours...then give it one more hit of the same. It'll dry over night but let it sit and wait at least a few days before hitting it with any sandpaper or abrasives. After that time, you can use denim or canvas as mentioned....or hit it with a light sanding at higher grit if you want ( as general point, I agree with others, sanding above 1000 for a simple wood handle is not really needed....though 2000 may add a hint more sheen. 4K is too much). Finally, put on a wax coating ...let the wax dry and buff it to the finish you want (you can buff it with a dishtowel, wool sock, etc).

CPD,

Your explanations are clear, insightful and very helpful. Thank you again.

Btw, thanks for starting this thread _pixelninja!

I'm looking at working with horn for my friend's knife rehandling.
Never worked with it before.

Mlau,

Good luck with the project! Thanks to the guys here, my handles turned out as I wanted and I know how to proceed on future projects. I'm glad I joined and inquired on this subject, hopefully it can be of help to others.