Japanese Kitchen Knives

Hi Guys,

I am new to the world of Japanese knifes but here we go,

Firstly, thank you all for taking the time to assist me. My name is Chris and I live in Australia. Looking to purchase a higher end starter set of knives that I can add to my collection over the years to come.

I found the “Questionnaire” so here goes!!!

LOCATION

What country are you in?

Australia but I have a friend who lives in Japan that is in to knives also, so he’s happy to shop, deliver ect 

KNIFE TYPE

Looking to purchase a full set of knifes. Uniformity is important to me as I am a bit OCD, I know this will probably ruffle some feathers on here but looking for a brand that covers a broad range of knives:

8 or 10 inch Chef knife
Pairing knife 4 inch
Serrated bread Knife 9 inch
Matching steel
Santoku 8 inch
Nakiri
Slicing / Carving Knife
Utility Knife
Boning Knife

These are the knives I would eventually like to have. Not looking for all upfront but able to ‘build’ the collection over a few years that matches (more on the knives I’m looking for upfront later)

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Japanese handle or combination, I love wooden handles with minimal metal, I would like to set to not have any rivets displayed on the handle the butt and bolster I like to have metal (not a deal breaker if it’s all wood). For an idea of what style I like the look of the Shun Premier range is high up there with what I would like the set to look like.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? As above

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) Minimal maintenance is better, I don’t mind sharpening on a steel and have started practising stone work before the new knifes arrive but I have read some materials can go bad if they’re left unwiped after use? Excuse my ignorance but I am very new to the world of Japanese knives. I like the idea of learning to perfect sharpening on stones.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? Looking at a set to start with, the following knifes are a must:

8 or 10 inch Chef knife (I’m 6”4 with large hands so am comfortable with the larger)
Pairing Knife
Matching Steel
Block with @ leased 11 slots (I’m not fussed if the block isn’t made by the same company as the knifes but I like the look of Bamboo Blocks, can anyone recommend a brand?)

For these 4 items I would spend up to $750 maybe more if they fit the brief. Looks are very important, I am a visual person. I do like the look of hammered blades and Damascus steel, I also love Japanese writing being engraved in the blade, I know this might seem a bit wanky to a lot of people but none the less 

KNIFE USE

Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Keen home cook, we cook dinner 6 nights out of 7 and make our lunches daily so they will get a good workout.

I guess the norm when using the knife, we prepare a lot of veggies, so the chef knife will be used the most, we eat lots of fruit, watermelon rockmelon etc. I do fillet my own fish but have filleting knifes already, something I would like the option to have matching later on down the track but not important at the moment. We do trim out meats, chicken, steak etc.

What knife, if any, are you replacing? A “gift” set, its rather cheap and doesn’t really maintain an edge.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? Rocking, chopping, push cut, slice

What improvements do you want from your current knife?

Maintain a super silly sharp edge (I know this also comes down to how we use the knife for also)
Aesthetically pleasing to look at.
Able to easily sharpen (I would like the blade to be the same angle on each side, I have read that some blades can have different angles making them harder to sharpen and maintain the edge. So a 50 / 50 edge is important)

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Im easy

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) – Need a new board, at the moment we have a maple board but happy to get another to better suit the knives

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) - Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) - Yes

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Currently I live in Australia but I have a friend over in Japan as stated that is more than happy to do leg work for me, so I can have access to any brand made in Japan, as stated previous, uniformity is very important. The knives will be on display 24 / 7 and the mrs will also appreciate this, happy wife, happy life 

Thank you everyone for taking the time to assist me, I really appreciate it!!!

Sorry if its a bit long winded but hopefully, the more information the better

B, Welcome to the forum. You've laid out your requirements and desires pretty comprehensively and I think I understand what you're looking for. But you've not made clear why you are looking for Japanese knives rather than European knives which frankly better suit your desires/requirements and are more readily available in the uniform sets that are important to you.

Shun is a brand, perhaps the only brand, that sounds well suited for you. Here they are considered overpriced for the performance they offer. IMO they are European style knives with a Japanese logo on the side and are owned by an American parent company that has targeted the upper income household. They do offer a full range of overpriced knives and could fill out your required set. And while they are much more "show" than "go", they don't suck. And if properly maintained they can even be decent.

Understand that this and other answers may not be what you want to hear but they will be based on the experiences of the members here.

Good luck in your search.

Yeah, no clue about a set...you could buy some really sweet knives and get them all rehandled with the same handles and then maybe some matching sayas but other than that I got nothing...and the Shuns don't engrave the kanji. Also, should mention that most knives recommended here will be destroyed if you use a steel to hone them.

I would actually look to Mac--they also will be missing the engraved kanji but otherwise can fill most of your needs if you find some you like?

Cheers

Shun looks better on the wall. Macs only look good on a board. I don't think the steel is a concern cause nobody ever uses them.:cool2:

daveb said:

Shun looks better on the wall. Macs only look good on a board. I don't think the steel is a concern cause nobody ever uses them.:cool2:

Click to expand...

:rofl2: I forgot the part about putting them on display...

Chris,

If you don't mind I'll just cut to the chase based on my experience. Others have much more experience, and will hopefully chime in too.

Forget the sharpening steel. They're no good on Japanese knives. Get some basic stones, a 1000 grit and a 5000 grit. A combo stone is the better value, but a Bester 1200 and Suehiro Rika 5000 are hard to beat for the money.

Forget the knife block. They're hard to source and too limiting. Get a magnetic knife storage bar, in wood.

A 10 inch or 240 Gyuto with a traditional Japanese Wa handle will be a great start. An iron clad knife will require some care. Please note highly acidic fruits will strip off any patina you have built up (oranges and lemons for example). A stainless clad, or full stainless, will require almost no special care in terms of wiping the blade down during use. I'd consider a carbon core stainless clad like an Itinomonn from JNS, or their Stain-less at around $280 AUD.

A 100mm parer is probably unnecessary, but may be useful. I get more utility from a 150mm petty. Get a stainless one for your oranges and lemons, and anything else you can think of. It will serve as a mini slicer, a meat trimmer, a chicken breaker, and many smaller tasks. Invaluable. Say $130-$150 AUD (Sakai Yusuke from Blueway Japan is an example),

If you eat crusty bread, get a Mac Professional bread knife or a Tojiro ITK bread knife. Say $100. If you don't eat crusty bread, but you do barbecue meat, get one. If you don't barbequeue meat, use the Gyuto instead.

Consider a Nakiri for your vegetable preparation. If you and your wife do prep together, you each have a suitable knife to use (you can decide who gets the Gyuto and who gets the Nakiri I like a 165mm, but many prefer a 180mm. Budget $200-300. Carbon core with iron clad will be fine if you don't mind wiping it down now and again during your dinner prep.
A Ku Shig would be an option. A local vendor, Knives & Stones, stocks them. I have one and love it.

I think that will be a great start at around $700 total (excluding the Nakiri), depending on your stone and storage bar choices. Any questions, feel free to PM me.

Cheers,

J

I'm just going to toss this one out there, Zwilling bob kramer knives, they hare sharpened to 15 degrees and harder than most westren knives 61 hrc, you can buy a set for like $800-$900 us 7 pieces, block, steel, bread, chef, paring, utility and the block, buy a slicer later on and some steak knives. Have a nakiri commissioned with a micirata(I cant spell that) and youd have your high end set. The other route is to buy japanese knives made out of some stainless material, Masakage Kumo might be up your alley, the damascus is sick on them, so bold and the edge should be silly sharp ootb, Masakage is a collab of blacksmiths and they have a sharpener who seems to know what hes doing, I believe they are made in a little knife village with a few different firms. I can't really speak to much on them as all my knives are carbon besides a beater, but I like my three masakage knives and dont see why their stainless lines wouldn't have the same level of sexiness, their logo is engraved and I believe they make three stainless lines. Kumo being the priciest, kiri and hikari being less pricy. None of them make a bread knife, so if need be simply buy a basic blade and have a handle commissioned also only kumo makes a honesuki. Two other options come to mind, contact jon and japanese knife imports and ask him if he can toss together a set for you, he carries a wide variety of carbon and stainless steel knives. Actually if you go to his site you can select the material you want and it will tell you which knives are available. Given he has such close connections to his clients it is possible he could special order a honesuki or something if you were only lacking one or two pieces of your set. The final option would be to commission all your knives custom, this would allow you full control over everything, handle materials, steel used, lengths, thickness etc, that would be my last option though, given custom knives are pricey at even lower end makers charging $300-$400 for a chef knife. Again a bread knife may not materialize but im positive someone here can re-handle a victorox knife to match a set, that shouldn't be a big deal. Like the guy above I also suggest a magnetic bar or do what I do and just get sayas/knife guards, where this isnt a "set" finding a block may be impossible albeit I think ive seen ones that have movable fibers which may be a good option.... I just googled it, they exist $40 bed bath and beyond or captain fancy pants ones for like 125.

Little heads up though, most of the good makers don't make sets, so you may find it challenging to create one, also these harder sexier steels are more fragile, so you still have to be careful.

Good suggestion with the kumo range. If you are in Melbourne or Sydney you should go into chef Armoury to check them in person. You can choose a handle that suits with the knife. I have a slicer and ko bunka in that range and it handles and cuts well.

A bit more left field and non japanese ... for a fancy set is florentine kitchen knives which are made in Israel

Thanks Guys!!!

I really appreciate everyone taking the time out to give me some direction here

Daveb:

But you've not made clear why you are looking for Japanese knives rather than European knives which frankly better suit your desires/requirements and are more readily available in the uniform sets that are important to you.

Honestly a lot of this comes down to presentation, I am a visual person and many of the Japanese knives I have seen are a functional piece of art and this is what has attracted me to them in the first place. My other hobby is Reef Keeping and I keep a 4 foot reef tank in my living room, I often refer to this also as a piece of art and am quite meticulous about its presentation also, so much so that I drive the Mrs crazy sometimes constantly moving things and cleaning.

Mute-on

Can you explain more what you mean by people don't use a steel? :scared4: Do you have the link to some threads I could possibly read??? I think I have MUCH more reading to do!!!!

Chinacats

An idea to have customer handles is possible but spending good money on a knife, them more to change the nice new handle I think would send me nuts.

If anyone has some good reading on Japanese knifes I would love some links, I'm happy to be patient with the purchase as I want to be well informed before I purchase!!!

Cheers Guys

Sorry just to add, people don't use steel "steel's" but do use ceramic rods? Or neither?!

Chris,

In a home environment most owners of Japanese knives will not use a steel. It might be appropriate on soft stainless steel, but will effectively destroy the edge on a hard carbon (or stainless) Japanese blade.
In a professional environment I understand that some use a ceramic rod to gently realign the edge if there isn't the time or opportunity to go to the stones.

Google or the forum search function will be very useful to research this more.

Enjoy your quest for knowledge and the journey! It is probably only fair to warn you that once you go down this rabbit hole, there's no turning back. Also, as an Aussie, you are obligated to buy at least one Shig :thumbsup:

A regular rod will damage a harder carbon steel knife. I have a ceramic one that I occasionally use. estimated at 6000 grit. So if you do buy one. Make sure it's Appropriate. A lot of people use a strop as well. ( think in a barbor shop) YouTube Japanese knife imports and watch jons videos. I posted them in a thread recently. He has two really nice intro videos. Ones a primer on steel types and one outlines the differences between them and say German knives. korin I think also has some. After that I'd just read on the forum and ask questions. Search first. If nothing comes up or you want to know about an individual knife ask. That's the great thing about this forum. There are so many users there's a good chance someone has used that knife. Or at least something from the line. Plus most people are extremely friendly. I'm going to make a rash comment and suggest you toss a $100 down on a basic blue number 2 carbon gyuto. Maintenance isn't that bad. The only knife I have that gives me pains is my Damascus one. If you get one of San Mai construction I.e. ( soft metal over the edge) the only part that should be any issue at all is the edge. I recently noticed some tarnish on my fugimoto nakiri. A simple slurry of barkeepers friend applied. One minute soak and a rinse and dry and it was perfect. If you were willing to go that route your options would be vastly improved. And if you don't like the knife you can sell it here for 70% of its original value. We recently had a member buy three knives. Figure out which one he liked best and sell the other For near par value. $90 outta $130. So you'd only be out a few bucks should you decide it's not for you. Albeit I presume once you realize the knife is the **** which you willl.... I came from cuisinart lol. You will fall in love. also don't feel rushed Knives are expensive. I want a yanagiba. I discovered a good yanagiba costs good money... Three months later still no yanagiba but when I do buy one I'll know it's the one. You reduce risk that way.

Haha thanks mute-on, it is a steep learning curve from what I thought would be a relatively easy purchase, the more I look in to it. The more I learn, then the more I change my mind.

The hardest think in Adelaide is people stocking higher end knives is almost non existent, so I have to go more on information rather than the feel of the knife it self.

Anyone have anything to say on Miyabi 5000MCD-B SG2

http://shop.knifewear.com/japanese-chef-knives-miyabi-5000mcd-b-sg2

My "Perfect Set" may have to be reduced to 3 knifes which I may have to live with...

Gyuto 240mm
Santoku 180mm
Petty 160mm

Any recommendations with this list?

Thanks again everyone!!!

Biggie said:

My "Perfect Set" may have to be reduced to 3 knifes which I may have to live with...

Gyuto 240mm
Santoku 180mm
Petty 160mm

Any recommendations with this list?

Click to expand...

You could even skip the santoku unless you just really just want it. I'd suggest a petty, paring knife and about a dozen or so gyutos

Just to add that the idea of watching Jon's videos is probably some of the best advice for someone in your shoes...that and the obligatory Shigefusa.

Cheers

Haha love it

I will definitely have a look through the YouTube videos tonight!!!! Thank guys, any advice on the Miyabi 5000MCD-B SG2?

You could also try:

240 Gyuto
165 to 180 Nakiri
150 Petty (I indicated 150 as it is one of the most common sizes)

The Santoku will double up with the Gyuto, the Nakiri can come very handy as a designated veggie knife. For the petty it is important you choose one you are comfortable with for all the "off board" tasks such as peeling.

Thanks for such a good info. I love different types of kitchen knives and its my hobby to collect them. Japanese knives are the ones that I love the most. I do sharpen my kitchen knives on my own and prefer sharpening stones for sharpening. Coming to the bamboo block I will recommend you to go for Chroma bamboo blocks as they are really good in quality and easy to use. For more information you can check out this link: http://www.vikingsun.se/produkt-kategori/knivforvaring/knivblock/

The santoku is for the Mrs of course. Gotta keep that one in...

Biggie said:

Haha love it

I will definitely have a look through the YouTube videos tonight!!!! Thank guys, any advice on the Miyabi 5000MCD-B SG2?

Click to expand...

I had a paring knife in that series, and the fit and finish was excellent. They are visually stunning, which is important to you, and they are very well performing knives. The SG2 steel is among the better steels for keeping an edge. The available knife types fit your desires (there is even a bread knife) and it a matching block is available. The only downside is the price.



http://www.cutleryandmore.com/miyabi-birchwood-sg2/knife-block-set-p126663

Based on my own experience, it's best to overcome the urge to buy a complete set for the sake of uniformity. You may quickly learn to appreciate the individual beauty and design of the knives from different makers, at least I did. Now to me a set from different makers are much more aesthetically pleasing than a set from the same maker.

I have to admit that I was drawn into this world by the look of Shun Premier set .

Cheers MrOlie

Something to think about, I must say I am used to the typical "Chef" knife so might be able to skip the Santoku for now, until the urge comes to complete the set I guess!!!

DaveB

Good point lol, that might keep her away from my Gyuto :lol2:

Pensacola Tiger

I seem to be picking the 'flashy' knives which I knew I would!!!! Im just so attracted to looks as well as functionality, there has to be a happy medium!!!!

The Shun Premier line is beautiful, I can see why people call them over priced but they are visually amazing, same as the Miyabi 5000MCD's. Both sets would be perfect but the Miyabi line are to expensive and can't find things like the steel / block available for purchase individually...

Ill find something eventually.

My friend in Japan has sent me an e-mail today asking me to look @ the Miyabi 7000D line? Has anyone got any experience with these knives?

Once again, thanks everyone for their help with this!!!

Cheers