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Lovelynella

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I got lots of help in my starter thread - THANKS for your collected help and fast responses!

Save Time:Share Similar knives so I get more exposure in the same $500-800 range.

My thoughts so you know where I'm coming from.
  • Performance = (Amount of time able to cut food cleanly and satisfactory with least effort) / (Time between sharpening sessions)

    1. Cutting performance should not vary drastically between steels. Yes some steels are better at sharpening and others at holding an edge, but in every day use at home this performance should be negligible as long as you sharpen at least once a month.

    2. A blade from $100-200 is going to perform just as good as a more expensive knife up to a certain point. The cheaper knife may need an extra sharpening before the more expensive knife due to better steel properties imparted by the heat treating and cold forging process used by the bladesmith.

    3. $300+ blades may cost more due to beautiful handles, pattern work on the blade, steel rarity, extra care, difficulty during forging, size, and the prestige of a legendary bladesmith.

    4. Carbon steels rust. Steels with a high Rockwell hardness will be more brittle. Brittle steel will chip with use and sharpening - even more than usual if your skill and technique is nonexistent. I'm ok with this because I'll be salvaging stainless knives from our current set to use.

    5. I need to practice my sharpening with the King stones I ordered. Second I'm deciding on an end grain cutting board. Lastly I will purchase my knife after I'm prepared and will take pictures :)


Therefore I believe my first Gyuto should be beautiful and make me happy in the 270mm range.

First I wanted a Kuruochi Carter Gyuto, but the recent stock comes with a beautiful and expensive handle that, to me, detracts from the rustic feel of the knife. I wanted it to feel old, so it feels ancient when I'm old. Therefore, I wanted to see what else I could find in the similar price range. I would buy the Carter if it was cheaper with the basic handle. These three I found recently in the $500 - $800 range.

Sukenari ZDP-189 -- Beautiful mirror finish with deep damascus cuts / I need to learn how to polish no Saya!
Konosuke Honyaki Gyuto -- Beautiful hamon and mirror finish - I feel frivolous because its Honyaki / its honyaki
Gesshin Kagekiyo Ginsanko -- Shiny, gradient, and the hamon line near the cutting edge + Saya / 4Sale on forums right now!

My rustic baseline is biased towards Carter because I like his story. By seeing the passion in his videos, I feel guilty buying anything else similar. Save me if I am suffering from fanboyism+bandwagonism-itus

Without holding these in my hand, I resort to input and hope you have similar knives for me to appreciate and help make my decisions easier. I feel that I may make a bad decision by buying fast instead of taking my time and buying smart.
 
What knives have you used in the past? These seem all dissimilar to me...btw, the hamon you see is actually the lamination line...the hamon is on the honyaki you listed...I don't know anything about the first knife listed, but I wouldn't suggest learning sharpening on the other two...
 
chinacats said:
What knives have you used in the past? These seem all dissimilar to me...btw, the hamon you see is actually the lamination line...the hamon is on the honyaki you listed...I don't know anything about the first knife listed, but I wouldn't suggest learning sharpening on the other two...
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree not to learn sharpening on any of these. Thanks for pointing out my error in the lamination line visible on the Gesshin.

I just got my 1000 and 6000 King stones and will start to sharpen on my own and learn using the knives we have.

I have not used expensive knives before, so your fears about me not being adept at handling these blades are true. I feel you can see the solution to my issue hidden in the mess of text I've written. Yes, I'm probably better off with a starter knife off the B/S/T section. I'd ask people I know, but no one I know has any of the first hand knowledge you, or anyone else has. In the end, writing all this down, and asking for a reality check, makes me feel better.
 
Lovelynella said:
Yes, I'm probably better off with a starter knife off the B/S/T section. I'd ask people I know, but no one I know has any of the first hand knowledge you, or anyone else has. In the end, writing all this down, and asking for a reality check, makes me feel better.
Click to expand...

Definitely agree with this. For a starter knife, you use it, learn to sharpen and learn what you like and don't like. After that, you have a better idea of what higher end knives will suit your personal tastes and needs a little better.
 
James said:
Definitely agree with this. For a starter knife, you use it, learn to sharpen and learn what you like and don't like. After that, you have a better idea of what higher end knives will suit your personal tastes and needs a little better.
Click to expand...

this
 
toddnmd said:
>$500 is too much for a starter knife. And honyakis are generally not recommended for beginners.
I'm also curious why you're so set on a 270.
Click to expand...

Yeah, be careful too, because 270 knives can also vary depending on who you buy from and how they measure the length.

I have a 270mm Gesshin Ginga Gyuto where the edge length is close to the same as my 250mm Itou R2 Guyto. Where as I have a 270mm Ealy Gyuto which I think the edge actually runs a little longer the 270mm. And if you had a small kitchen could easily uncomfortable.

The other thing to consider is your cutting boards, you really have to match your cutting boards to your knife. I made myself a 450 x 300 end grain board, and it is almost too narrow for my Ealy.
 
I would suggest starting with a 240 for home cooks. You can always go up if you desire, but home cooks don't go through enough volume to need more, and we can take our time so don't need to crank out volume with the bigger knife as well. The 240 is more than enough for most tasks, but it gets you use to bigger knives than you really need for most tasks. My first dip into this world was a 270 and it seemed HUGE (now not so bad, but it was too big of a jump from what I had).

My buddy never uses more than a 180 petty even though I try to get him to use my variety of gyutos.
 
As most people before me have said a knife in the $500+ range is overkill for beginners, I would instead recommend you getting one in the $300 range if you have a budget like that and save the rest for later. I'm relatively new to all of this but I started with a 240masakage koishi gyuto and a nakiri from the same line, both are awesome even though a lot of people said it was a bad choise for a beginner (very thin edge and high HC makes it prone to chipping if used carelessly). All depends on how much time and effort you are willing to sacrifice for caring for the knives.
Please answer these questions and it might be easier to recommend you a suitable knife :)
Stainless or carbon steel?
Wa-handle or western?
What type of finish do you prefer? (Damascus, kurouchi, polished)
Do you use pinch grip, racket grip or other?
Do you prefer rocking, chopping push/pull cutting or other?
What type of food do you typically cut? More veggies than meat?

With all this info on sure we can find you a suitable knife! :)
 
Since you don't know how to sharpen or maintain knives well, I'd say you're not ready for any of those knives.

And of Carter's knives, the only line I'd recommend that you buy is the Muteki line. There is quite a bit of variance, but they're good knives and lower maintenance. But, you still have to be able to sharpen to maintain it, and it has a carbon steel core so you can't leave it dirty.
 
Well I don't want to go against everyone here because they have all given you sound advice, but if you are anything like me and if you settle for something other then what you really want you won't he happy. Get the knife you really want and buy some **** knife to practice sharpening. It will not take you long to get comfortable with sharpening.
Good Luck!
Sam
 
Disagree. You don't even know what you like in a knife. Until you know your own preferences don't spend that much on a knife. There are plenty of great knives under $200 to learn with.
 
Thanks guys. I've read what you all have written.

I'll be sharpening my knives starting today and take a break from all the knife pr0n on Youtube, as well as finding a starter knife in the 240mm range on the B/S/T thread when I decide its time.

But please share any cool knives that are shiny :))) that you all like.
 
I've not used this one, but it's shiny, it's rather light, and it runs slightly longer than 240. The price is such that you could buy it, scratch it up good, get it fixed and not lose too much money in the process. You could use it to help determine which future knives you may enjoy and best of all, you would get to experience the ultimate packaging experience by purchasing from Jon (he's the guy who agreed that you shouldn't go buy expensive knives--and he happens to sell some of the prettiest, shiniest knives available). You can call him and he will give you some quality personal advice that will be much more worthwhile than just buying randomly. Don't call him today, Thursday is the one day of the week he is closed:)
 
Have you taken a look at the Miyabi 5000 MCD series? ZDP-189 steel. 24cm max, but I have the 7000MC gyuto (identical size and shapewise) and these things feel extremely large for 24cm.

product_5431520b.jpg
 
The shiniest knife I think I've seen (other than the sukenari zdp189) is probably the kikuichi swedish nickel damascus in AEB-L.

70khtl.jpg


(picture reposted from elsewhere online)

You can find the 240 gyuto online from various retailers from between $250 and $300. Appears to be a super thin/light knife, if you think that'd be your style.

You may also be able to order direct from Kikuichi, not sure.
 
That kikuichi looks like it would have major stiction issues...
 
there's a carter on the BST.

if you dont have an opposition to spending that much I would probably just get that.
 
mhpr262 said:
Have you taken a look at the Miyabi 5000 MCD series? ZDP-189 steel. 24cm max, but I have the 7000MC gyuto (identical size and shapewise) and these things feel extremely large for 24cm.

product_5431520b.jpg
Click to expand...

5000 MCD-B is SG2 steel. IIRC ZDP-189 was used for the 7000 MCD (d style handle) and 600 MCD (western style handle)
 
You can't go wrong with the Misono Swedish steel, I basically have the entire series. However keep in mind it is carbon so requires some extra care versus stainless. And it has a dragon!
 
One other thing about the Misono is they are 70/30 so are somewhat right/left biased depending on the particular knife. The one on BST looks to be for a right handed user
 
Thanks guys I appreciate the comments. I'll be practicing some more sharpening because I cant get an even bevel just yet on the dull knives :)

I'm planning a cutting board at the moment to see if its worth making a custom design or getting some scrap :)
 
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