Petty knife help v2

Hey guys. So a while back I posted a thread like this to find something, and I couldn't decide on what to get. I eventually decided to go with the Kochi 150mm Petty from JKI. It had all the features I wanted at the time, and was a nice price. However, it has been sold out forever. After checking back in on it over and over, and reading some threads about kurouchi finishes, I am not sure I want a kurouchi knife. The posts about the finish coming off on food or over time, or being uneven has me questioning it. Also, just generally not being sure if I like the aesthetics of carbon patina has me reconsidering as well.

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
-Petty Knife

Are you right or left handed?
-Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
-Octagon Wa handle that is not Ho wood preferably. Something darker.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
-150mm – 170mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
-No. Would prefer a stainless clad carbon.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
-$250



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
-Home only

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
-Medium to small vegetable prep

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
-For use in place of 240mm gyuto for smaller tasks

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
-Pinch or finger point

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
-Rock and push cut

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics?
-Wide secondary bevels.
-Would like burnt chestnut handle or something with some depth and contrasting grain structure.

Comfort?
-Similar or better fit and finish compared to the gesshin ginga.

Ease of Use?
-Better food release than the Gesshin ginga 240mm gyuto is my main want. I would like low reactivity full carbon or stainless clad carbon with any reactivity.

Edge Retention?
-For this knife long edge retention comes before edge quality.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
-I use a Hi-soft cutting board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
-Yes. I have Gesshin stones.



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I would like as much height as I can get. I don’t need it to be as tall as a gyuto but I would like some room for my fingers if I want to do a little rocking. The Kochi petty comes in at 33.5mm tall so I would like something taller than that if possible.
I want a carbon knife to experience it compared to my stainless ginga. However, I don’t think I like the look of patina on carbon. Looking through the “My favorite color is blue” thread, there are really only a couple knives I think look good. A few that would be tolerable And many I just would not want. Maybe if I saw some in person. Maybe I’m being a pansy. I bought an Opinel carbon pocket knife a while back to try out a carbon knife for cheap. I did the mustard forced patina, and it has gained its own patina after some time as well. It just looks kind of dirty to me.
I really like the features of the Gesshin Gengetsu line due to the stainless cladding, but it does not have wide secondary bevels. If it did, this would be my ideal knife. I like the Gesshin Heiji as well, but have read the Heiji semi-stainless actually takes a pretty dark patina. Anyone own one with a patina set in that would mind posting pics?
Yes, I am confused.
Thanks.

Sounds like the Masakage Koishi 150mm Petty falls within most of those requirements. Don't know about the fit and finish level of the knife you mentioned, but Masakage are known for having a solid fit and finish out of the box. I have the Koishi Honosuke and 240mm Gyuto, as well as a 150mm Shimo petty and they are nice knives. The Koishi line is stainless clad with blue super steel core, and the retention is great from my experience. If the petty doesn't have the height you are looking for, mabe you should consider the 170mm Bunka. And the kurouchi finish on them is very good. Doesn't seem to be going anywhere, on my knives at least.

Outside of the handle not being burnt or having some fancy burl, it seems like a close match. Aftermarket handle is always an option.

Knifewear in Canada has them for nice prices because of the current state of the Canadian Dollar.

burnt chestnut wa handled tall petty with wide secondary bevel in stainless clad carbon primarily for rock chopping . . .

:dazed:

Dude I dunno how you're gonna make all that work. I think you might need to part with some of that criteria. I'd start with the idea that you're going to be doing any real rocking with a petty. No real belly to speak of.

As for the stainless clad carbon and wide bevel criteria, I'm not sure of a knife that combines those but maybe others know better. There are many examples of one or the other. For stainless clad carbon, maybe the itonomonn kasumi 165mm petty in v2? For wide secondary bevel at your price point, maybe one of the konosuke fujiyama lines?

As for the premium burnt chestnut wa handle . . .you can always purchase an upgrade but again I think there just needs to be a fundamental rethinking of the concept here.

PS I just googled "japanese knife with belly" and the first thing that came up was sepukku... maybe take it as a sign :dontknow:

If you're open to used, my 180 Haburn has higher than normal board clearance yet is still very comfortable with hand work. Mine is stainless. There is a carbon variant available at:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/22764-Haburn-180-petty-52100

The Takeda 140 has a tall blade. PM sent.

This?

http://www.teruyasu.net/products/detail_26.html

I don't think it is particularly tall, but use a petty for small work and use a taller knife (gyuto) if you want more height. It sounds like you are trying to create a petty that does not function like a petty. Get two different knives. The more the merrier would be my advice.

Or this?

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=91726

Back to kurouchi and light WA handle, but a decent candidate to get an upgraded handle of your choice. I have one in 165mm and it works great for a variety of tasks, (but is not like a petty knife).

If you raised your budget and posted a WTB you might be able to land something like this:

http://www.cartercutlery.com/5-45-sun-high-grade-series-funayuki-ironwood-128grams/

STYLE: High Grade Series Funayuki Knife
STEEL: Hitachi white steel core laminated with stainless steel
WEIGHT: 128 grams
HANDLE: Premium Arizona Desert Ironwood
LINERS: White and Green
BLADE LENGTH: 5.45sun, 165mm (6.5")
BLADE WIDTH: 48mm
BLADE THICKNESS: *1.55mm

Bam! Stainless clad W#1 150mm petty w/ burnt chestnut handle:

http://www.japanische-kochmesser.ch...no-Shirogami-1-Petty-150mm-Nashiji::2802.html

comes in at $150 USD. Nashiji finish (not kurouchi).

Thanks so much for the suggestions and responses. I worked alot of hours the last two days, so I haven't been able to really reply here or look too deeply, but there are some really good options showing up.

Yes I know my criteria are pretty narrow, but this is an enthusiast knife forum is it not? Might as well shoot for the stars and land at least on the moon. I was decided after my first thread, but one option sold out, then another... and then neither came back in stock.

I will check back in tomorrow and go over the thread properly.

Thanks friends.

Alright, so going over the suggestions and critiques of what I want, vs what a petty is used for... I think a funayuki is more in line with my list.
Upon being lightly flamed for considering rock chopping with a petty, I thought about how I actually prepare veggies on a small cutting board. I hereby change my answer for usage to push cut only. I beg forgiveness. :tongue:

I still think any petty with reasonable height would work for me, because I currently use a 2.5" paring knife or Shun Classic 6-in. Utility Knife that my girlfriend bought for herself before I started looking into japanese knives. So I use one of these knives for small quick breakfast prep, or if I only have to cut up one or two things for a dinner and don't feel like breaking out my large cutting board and gyuto to clean. My problem with these knives is that on a cutting board there is no room for my knuckles to finish certain cuts.

I do know I do not want a santoku. I have an irrational bias against santoku's, even though they would fit this purpose well. It's mostly aesthetics. I am not sure if I would like a nikiri or not, I don't do a lot of chopping. I will consider this option in the future, I do enjoy the look of a nikiri.

I do not require burnt chestnut handle, I only require that the handle darker than a ho wood handle. Preferably with some wood grain or other nice features.

It seems wide secondary bevels and stainless cladding is not a common thing.

As far as the suggestions, the teruyasu is a good option, but the dark handles are out of stock.

Thanks chifonodd for your suggestions, I am really liking the Goko Hamono knife! I had never heard of the nishiji finish before today, but it does seem interesting in a good way. This knife almost spot on. I am not able to tell, but the grind appears to have wide secondary bevels? Or if it simply thinned from the nishiji finish down?
Anyone ever ordered from this manufacturer before?

thanks again!

No flaming intended! I was just scratching my head about how to meet all those criteria in a production knife. As for the Goko, I have not used one but upon further reflection it probably is a somewhat entry level knife and my guess is it is overpriced from that vendor. You can find it elsewhere for 2/3 of the price if you google it, which is probably more reflective of its value . . .

chiffonodd said:

No flaming intended! I was just scratching my head about how to meet all those criteria in a production knife. As for the Goko, I have not used one but upon further reflection it probably is a somewhat entry level knife and my guess is it is overpriced from that vendor. You can find it elsewhere for 2/3 of the price if you google it, which is probably more reflective of its value . . .

Click to expand...

I was just kidding no worries.

Still on the hunt.