Knives & Stones Tojiro DP and PM series comparison: profile, geometry, f&f

This thread is a follow up of the original thread: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/23031-Rakuten-Tojiro-PM-(SG2-)-240-115-USD

since I carry both knives, I know how they compare with each other, but it was also not appropriate for me to make comments on things I carry in the "public space", hence posts were moved. Daveb was kind enough to suggest that it would be good to get the comparisons back in my subforum, that way, I can still share such info while not violate the rules. So here we go:

In the original thread, OP (chiffonodd) asked about maybe the PM 240 gytuo could be a good "project knife". While I am not here to comment the project knife part, I do want to let you guys know that the PM series is overall a much better finished, a more "ready to go" knife. Compared to the DP series, while the profile is similar, the PM is thinner behind the edge, and the OOTB edge is much better because to me, it is hand sharpened compared to the DP which is just belt finished, which sometimes VERY uneven.

Aboute the steel: DP is basically VG10; the PM is unknown, but I think there are very limited steel types in Japan that you can turn into sanmai? maybe not hard to figure out some candidates :O

Above is just my personal comparison between the two lines, so I prepared some pics for you to judge. Both examples are picked randomly from my stock, but I'd say they are quite typical from their respective lines.

Grind looks pretty good to me! Worlds better than the factory grind on the DP. And the handle looks much more comfortable too. Still think it could be a fun to buy some nice scales and try a rehandle Thanks for posting, very informative.

The PM looks like a great knife. Not a project knife at all IMO.

The PM looks much thinner, probably a way better performer

Great and useful post!

I have a Tojiro PM and I like it quite a lot. For the money, i think it is one of the better knives out there. For example, it costs a wee bit less than the carbonext and, while it obviously doesn't sharpen as easily as a carbonext, it does sharpen up quite nicely. And being PM, it keeps that "90%" edge for a very, very long time. I feel the F&F is better than the carbonext and, of course, the OOB edge is much much better (which isn't hard to be of course as carbonexts have notoriously lousy OOB edges.)

So, while I am only an amateur cook, still, it would seem an excellent knife for certain production environments because of how long it keeps that 90% edge...

Thanks for this posting, James! Never tried a Tojiro before, but after those pics, there would be only one way to go.

labor of love said:

The PM looks like a great knife. Not a project knife at all IMO.

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I agree. Much better than I expected. Now I'm even more intrigued.

pkjames, werent you just commenting on another thread about how you have trouble taking choil shots, lol? Those pics look great!

labor of love said:

pkjames, werent you just commenting on another thread about how you have trouble taking choil shots, lol? Those pics look great!

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actually it was quite hard and very ad hoc, if you look at the choil of the DP 809, it was slightly angeled to the right side of the blade, the F 521 was a bit lucky. I really wanted a more system way of be able to that 100% perfect choil shots. Jon just sent me a jig and Todd's method was also worth a try (thanks gentlemen!).

Dp vg10 is very easy to sharpen, in a production setting I would sacrifice a little bit of retention for sharpenability any day. The f&f is a little lacking but at such a bargain value it is easily justified. For project knives I think a thicker grind is favorable as you can achieve greater convexity and implement a wide bevel when modifying yourself. The pm looks like a good out of box knife however for those that just want to get going from the start.

Well with mine, I just touched up the OOB edge on Jon's awasedo and then stropped on 1 micron diamond impregnated Balsa, only took a couple of minutes and after that the thing was as sharp as anyone would ever want... For my Carbonext I had to run through a full progression before i was happy with it..

gic said:

Great and useful post!

I have a Tojiro PM and I like it quite a lot. For the money, i think it is one of the better knives out there. For example, it costs a wee bit less than the carbonext and, while it obviously doesn't sharpen as easily as a carbonext, it does sharpen up quite nicely. And being PM, it keeps that "90%" edge for a very, very long time. I feel the F&F is better than the carbonext and, of course, the OOB edge is much much better (which isn't hard to be of course as carbonexts have notoriously lousy OOB edges.)

So, while I am only an amateur cook, still, it would seem an excellent knife for certain production environments because of how long it keeps that 90% edge...

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Agree been using the 240mm for about a month. Price was 131.60 & some shipping from down under. Has some weight & a great grind as James pictures show. It is a good cutter with excellent steel, easy to sharpen takes an edge as far as you want. I only use Gesshin 4K Soaker & leather strop. This will make an good production blade at a steal of a price.

hey james I was wondering if I could kindly ask you for spine measurement and height (both at heel) for the PM knife? And maybe a shot of the spine? Just curious how it compares to the DP and havent been able to find measurements online. Also wondering how snug your saya fits the knife?

spoiledbroth said:

hey james I was wondering if I could kindly ask you for spine measurement and height (both at heel) for the PM knife? And maybe a shot of the spine? Just curious how it compares to the DP and havent been able to find measurements online. Also wondering how snug your saya fits the knife?

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48mm at the heel. The spine is pretty much the same all the way, then taper at the tip. I can't find my calipers (god I have 3!) so I won't be able to provide an accurate measurement. Its friction fit to the saya I am selling

somewhat dodgy spine shot.

thanks muchly for the quick response james! you have a ridiculous (good) price on these by the way. No need to worry about the calipers then. Thicker at the spine than the DP would you say?