Would appreciate any advice on my first Japanese gyuto

LOCATION
What country are you in? USA (Oklahoma)


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? chef's

Are you right or left handed? right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? western

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 8"/210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? $175


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? bit of everything except dealing with bones

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Wusthof Classic 8" chef's

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) push-cut

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) sharper, lightweight, different type of steel

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? I'm a fan of Damascus. stain resistance is a plus. prefer brown over black handles.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? light, well balanced

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? easy to sharpen is necessary since I will be new to sharpening

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? as long a possible



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) yes, bamboo and plastic/polyethylene. planning on buying a cypress board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) nope

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) yes! very interested.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) yes. going to buy a King #1000 and #6000 sharpening stone.



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I made the decision to start a simple knife collection about a week ago since I'm moving to a new place in a couple months. Familiar with only my parent's ol' reliable Wusthof chef's knife, I initially assumed I couldn't do better than a 7-piece Wusthof set (at $300! yikes.) Then I was looking at the Victorinox Chef's on Amazon, but I couldn't get past how ugly it looks. :biggrin: Thankfully, I did my research and found this forum. There are some seriously beautiful knives out there! While I would love to own a collection comparable to the ones some of you have, I'm a student on a limited budget with practically non-existent knife skills (despite cooking my own meals 95% of the time instead of eating out. will learn more soon.) and no experience with sharpening (will fix that soon as well!). So I figured, as tempted as I am to splurge...baby steps. My budget limits me to entry-level Japanese knives, and I'm perfectly fine with that. But I don't want to sacrifice quality.
I was looking at the Tojiro DP and I've read the fit and finish isn't that great. It also apparently has a problem with microchipping. I've read many mixed opinions on this knife, saying it's perfect for beginners. Others recommend spending a bit more for something that's made better. So, here are the five I'm considering instead:

-Suisin Inox Western-Style Gyutou 8.2" $115
-Yoshihiro Hammered Damascus Gyuto Knife 8" $130
- Togiharu Nickel Damascus Gyuto 8" $169 (sold out on Korin, but hoping they get more in stock. like that Damascus pattern.)
-Masamoto VG Gyuto 8.2" $162
-Takamura Migaki R2 Gyuto 8.2" $175
-Hiromoto Tenmi-Jyuraka Series aogami super 8.2" $135 (sold out everywhere, but maybe I could fine a used one eventually.)

I'm leaning towards either the Suisin or Takamura simply because I like the handles. I'll admit to having some strong aesthetic preferences...I won't consider MAC knives because I don't like the logo on the blade. Don't like the look of knives with less than three rivets. Like knives with the more curved butts (like Wusthof classic) more than those with slanted butts like the Tojiro DP. I don't want to choose purely based on aesthetics, though because I know that's silly. From my knowledge, all of these would be improvements compared to the Wusthof, but since I really don't know that much, I'm unsure about the pros/cons of each. Thoughts?

Also, side note, I got a bit too excited and impulsively bought a Maruyoshi 10.5" vg-10 Damascus Gyuto that was on sale for $225. Bought it on day 2 after finding this forum, so what I knew about knives was still extremely limited. I saw the Hattori HD during my search and thought it looked nice, but couldn't find any for sale. Was super disappointed when I discovered Mr. Hattori isn't making many knives nowadays. So I went ahead and bought the Maruyoshi because it looks similar to the HD. 10.5" is too big for me, so I'm going to return it, but is Maruyoshi a reputable brand? All I know is the blade is made by the same company responsible for the Hattori HD knives. I couldn't find much about it and I'm curious.

Sorry this is kind of long. Thanks for reading!

From your list I like and recommend the Suisin Western. I've bought them for mom, sister, and a couple gf. Anywhere I'm likely to have to cook. Korin, a sponsoring vendor here carries them and provides great service.

Not on your list is the Gesshin Stainless from Japanese Knife Imports. Similar in price to the Suisin, it is also a well made, inexpensive stainless knife. I've also bought a couple of these and would recommend them for your requirements.

Comparing the two, both are very good values, the Suisin may look a little nicer with it's distinctive logo, the Gesshin is the one I would choose to go all day with.

No experience with the others on your list.

BTW, I would suggest that the Bestor 1200 and Suehiro 5K (Japanese Knife Sharpening) are a better value than the cheaper Kings. They'll work fine and last a long time. The Gesshin 1K/6K combo is probably a better choice still. Make sure you have a way to flatten the stones.

Enjoy the search.

A very beautiful knife ( it was voted in Japan, I don't know which year, according to kikuichi, as the most beautiful knife of the year), is a Kikuichi OEM, of their hammered warikomi Damascus line, the GEKO.
You can find it at Japanesechefknife, but at 24cm, with brown wooden handle for 135Usd(same price for last 4-5 years). I have it with black handle.
On e-bay, you can find it at 21cm, but I don't remember the price.
In my opinion, the knife is ideal for first Japanese knife, and it is good enough for a lifetime.
The21cm is actually 21.5cm, the 24cm is 24.5 cm.
It is beautiful, hammer finish, a little light grey patina, Damascus, mirror finish over the edge at kisagi, hefty and thin,hard, VG-10, so takes a little time to sharpen, but sharpens at very good levels and remains for some period. Pretty good edge retention.
It was my second Japanese knife, after Global G-2, and the knife that made me fall in love with knives. I still use it professionally, it never disappoints me.
You have to round the spine, to the length of your hand while using pinch grip, very very square spine. Easy fix on the stones, the cladding metal is not so hard.

Ryusen hammered finish Damascus, tsutsime, is an even more amazing knife, luxurious one, nickel, rounded spine, dark brown mikarta handle with waters and metallic butt, killer edge, but around 100 usd more expensive than the GEKO, heftier, you can find it at 21 cm on e-bay as well. I have it and love it

I have a Takamura, that thing is like a scalpel, very thin and steel is pretty good too. I wouldn't use it on a bamboo or plastic board though

My first Japanese knife was a Tojiro DP 210 mm gyuto. The only thing I don't like about it is that it is really just a bit too short -- I bought it to match the western knives I have for length and regret not getting the 240 mm version.

I know they don't get much love here, but Tojiros are really very nice, plain, workhorse knives. I've not had any chipping problems, and since I have quite large hands I like the blocky handle. No fit or finish issues.

I've sharpened it once since I got it, probably could use a touch-up now, but it's sharp all the way to the tip, unlike Western knives that are dull for a couple inches so you can pivot them around on a cutting board (or the makers are lazy, I'm not sure which).

Whatever Japanese style knife you get, please don't rock chop with it (pivoting the knife on the edge near the point) as the sideways motion will surely chip the steel. Far better to learn to push cut, it's easier on the edge.

I'll second the Bester 1200 and Suehiro Rika 5K. You could also use a King 6000, they are much nicer than the lower grit King stones, but it will take more work to use it than the Suehiro. Either makes a good starter set and you won't need much more for quite a while so long as you don't chip an edge.

You will be delighted with the difference in cutting ability with Japanese knives compared to a Wustof.

Peter

tjangula said:

I have a Takamura, that thing is like a scalpel, very thin and steel is pretty good too. I wouldn't use it on a bamboo or plastic board though

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+1 for the Takamura

Would not recommend a Takamura based solely on your current bamboo and poly cutting board. Cypress is also not a good option. It is an appropriate hardness, but you want a wood that is not porous and that is considered edible. The industry has already narrowed this down for you. Your choices are maple, cherry, or walnut. Yes, my Takamura knives redefine what 'drop through food' means as they literally fall through product without resistance. I think anyone who has handled Wusthof, Henckels, Forschner or Sabatiers their entire life will have their jaw literally drop in awe by cutting with one. But hey... what J-knife is NOT an improvement over a classic Wusthof?

I say spend all the money on the quality of the knife rather than paying extra for a damascus/suminagashi or other cosmetic feature only.

Welcome to the forum You picked out some good knives in your price range. The Suisin Inox is a thin blade that cuts well. The Takamura has very good steel core steel and a thin profile that will glide through food. Plus brown western handle that you like.

If you get a thin quality Japanese knife upgrade your cutting board. As mentioned maple is good. The Bester 1200 is a great medium stone for the price as is the Rika 5K for polish. As a home cook these stones will last you many years.

For a very robust workhorse knife, you might also consider a Misono UX10. This is Japanese made, western handle (3 rivets) swedish steel. I find the blade profile excellent, and they are easy to sharpen and retain a good edge. Although I have a bunch of high end J knives, I quite often turn to the Misono for everyday cooking. Maintains a fine edge for ages with just a light strop. I bought mine in Osaka but they are readily available on-line.

I second the comments about cutting boards. A poor choice of board will dull well sharpened blades quite quickly. As well as the woods referred to here, butchers blocks and boards can also be made from end grain Acacia, which is also very suitable and often well priced.

My advice is not on a specific knife but rather on what you might want to consider.
I.e., "Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) yes", "Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? western"
If your enthusiasm increases for fine blades your inevitable progression will be to include Wa (japanese) handled carbon knives. You will find that stainless is a bit more feisty when it comes to sharpening as well.
So, consider going for the gusto right off the bat and increase your budget by say $100 and you WILL NOT look back, I assure you.
Have fun.

Thanks everyone! You've all been really helpful. I've narrowed it down to the Takamura, Suisin, and while I had looked at Misono UX10 and dismissed them due to price, I think I would be willing to spend a bit more since they really do seem like great knives.

I'll also be sure to check out those sharpening stones. Little wary of the cost, but I know it'll be worth it in the end.

bkdc said:

Would not recommend a Takamura based solely on your current bamboo and poly cutting board. Cypress is also not a good option. It is an appropriate hardness, but you want a wood that is not porous and that is considered edible. The industry has already narrowed this down for you. Your choices are maple, cherry, or walnut. Yes, my Takamura knives redefine what 'drop through food' means as they literally fall through product without resistance. I think anyone who has handled Wusthof, Henckels, Forschner or Sabatiers their entire life will have their jaw literally drop in awe by cutting with one. But hey... what J-knife is NOT an improvement over a classic Wusthof?

I say spend all the money on the quality of the knife rather than paying extra for a damascus/suminagashi or other cosmetic feature only.

Click to expand...

I was going to buy a cherry end-grain butcher block/cutting board, but all of the nice ones I've seen are so expensive. I thought cypress was a good choice since it's cheaper and would still be kind to my knives. And I could've sworn I read something saying it had antibacterial properties...I'll look more into it. I think I might splurge and stick with an end-grain board.

I've used a Takamura on plastic boards no problem, though my home board is rubber.

vivmarie said:

I was going to buy a cherry end-grain butcher block/cutting board, but all of the nice ones I've seen are so expensive. I thought cypress was a good choice since it's cheaper and would still be kind to my knives. And I could've sworn I read something saying it had antibacterial properties...I'll look more into it. I think I might splurge and stick with an end-grain board.

Click to expand...

When you say cypress are you referring to hinoki cypress? I recall hearing about the AB properties too. Also with pine in particular

^ Yes. Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KXAVCFO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I actually have that one and the two smaller sizes as well, the only shun products ill ever own. They seem decent, when I got mine I had to order from the states. They can warp though but can more or less be corrected

Yes that board is fine. You can get it cheaper with out the Shun Logo. Just don't use cleavers on it with hard chopping.

Stones are easy, any one of the "starter sets" most suppliers here offer will work fine. A Bester 1200, a Suehiro Rika 5000 and a piece of drywall screen will get you started for around $100 depending on supplier and shipping. You will eventually want to add a better flattening device (diamond plate probably), but you can sharpen a lot of knives over a decade or two with just those stones.

Peter

Given your preference for a brown handle, damascus and a thin blade, the Gekko mentioned earlier is a great choice. Since it's out of stock, Korin (a vendor here) offer the same knife in their Togiharu line

http://korin.com/Togiharu-Hammered-Damascus-Gyutou?sc=27&category=280059

This has the added bonus of getting a first-rate sharpening job at point of purchase, and is within your $175 budget.

You mentioned the Misono UX10 . . . knowledgeable people (including at least approved vendor here) have told me that these knives are super expensive in the US because they became all the rage a few years back. For example I've seen the 240 gyuto retail for anywhere between $280 and $330.

You can get it direct from Japan for $180!

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/newworldnet/item/misono-no713/

Ordering from rakuten is not risk free, however - ordering from a domestic retailer carries lots of advantages. But at that steep of a discount it is worth thinking about!

The price of Misono knives increased 40% overnight a few years back (there was some talk of the company wanting to bring export prices in line with domestic prices/currency fluctuatons etc). Some other makers followed suit, albeit with smaller increases.

The Misono Moly (and to a lesser extent the popular Swedish Carbon, oft seen in "Dragon" guise) became less popular as a result.

You'll always get good F&F with a Misono, plus they have good handles. I like their 210 and 240 gyuto profiles. Also, a UX10 isn't worth >double the price of a Moly, imo.