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Adrenaline_6

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Hi guys,

I am looking to add to my wife's kitchen knife collection and get her a new one as a gift as well as a high quality pan but that is for another forum I guess.

I have bought all of her knives since I am the one into knives and she really doesn't care that much about them. She does appreciate the fact that she has good knives and that I got them for her though. She likes to cook but doesn't care too much about the tools she uses enough to go research and find out what to buy. That is my job I guess. That concept is weird to me because I am the exact opposite, and am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once". I personally have some nice folding knives and fixed blades and have decent knowledge about them, but am lacking in the kitchen knife knowledge department. So this is why I am looking for your expert suggestions.

I know sets and mass production are not really recommended here but I got an absolute ridiculous deal that I could not refuse on a Shun Classic set awhile back and still have never seen that deal again. So what she has now is an 8" Chef knife, a 6" Utility knife, a Bread knife. the pairing was stolen when we had a party at our house and was replaced with a Shun Kaji pairing knife in SG2. I also bough her a 7" hollow ground Santoku. I do find they chip easy and have repaired them a couple times. I was thinking of going a high quality carbon route for durability and build that collection on top of what she currently has.

I sharpen all the knives but use the same tools that I use on my folders and get decent results. I have an Edge Pro Apex for the big duties and a Spyderco Sharpmaker for the light duty. I also have a big 4 sided wooden strop for quick touch ups. I have a felt block and a loupe too. I probably need to get finer and a wider range of stones though for the kitchen knives unless this isn't advisable and I should go a whole new route for the kitchen knives.

I listed the recommended questions that pertain as best I could.

LOCATION
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
I would think she would probably appreciate a 240 or 270 Gyoto, but this is where you guys come in.

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
She likes the Shun handles just fine, but probably won't complain about either.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
I have spent $400 on a nice folder but I also like to look at bang for buck also. I don't mind spending the money as long as the price is justified.

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
She of course does all these tasks, but where would be the biggest void in what she currently has?

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
I think she hammer grips.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I am thinking she doesn't have a true laser to cut with to make her vegetable and meat slicing duties easier. I could be wrong.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I sharpen them, so she won't care. I like ease of sharpening and resistance to chipping over edge retention for kitchen knives.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes


My short time here perusing I have seen Tanaka, Konosuke, Gesshin, and a bunch of others mentioned repeatedly, so all help is appreciated.


Thanks ahead of time!!! If yuo need more info, I will monitor this thread and answer as best I can.
 
If you're looking for a laser, there are several usual suspects:

- ashi/gesshin ginga
- Sakai yusuke
- Ikkanishi Tadatsuna
- Konosuke HD2 / HH

The top three come in swedish stainless or white 2 carbon. The konosuke HD2 is a semi-stainless steel and the HH is also swedish stainless I believe. I don't think you addressed in the survey whether you preferred carbon or stainless steel but it sounds like maybe your wife would prefer stainless.

These knives are all pretty similar. You probably just want to settle on stainless versus carbon or semi-stainless and then just get whichever among them is in stock and suits your budget. You can get the Ginga direct from Ashi or from Jon at JKI. You can get the Tadatsuna from AFrames. Sakai Yusuke is sold by bluewayjapan on ebay. And the Konosukes are sold by several merchants but seem to be out of stock everywhere.
 
Welcome!

I'll preface my recommendation by saying that this is a knife that I have not tried but think would be a possible good fit here. This knife is carbon (can rust if left on the counter wet) but seems to be pretty sweet for the money.

I'm also a fan of Tanaka but if you purchase one of the inexpensive models you may want to re-handle it.
 
Just wanted to say that people who don't "care too much about the tools" they use rarely go in for for knives much longer that 210mm. I'd stick at that length. I'd also second what chiffonodd said about getting semi-stainless rather than carbon. It's much lower maintenance.
 
Rayuela said:
Just wanted to say that people who don't "care too much about the tools" they use rarely go in for for knives much longer that 210mm. I'd stick at that length. I'd also second what chiffonodd said about getting semi-stainless rather than carbon. It's much lower maintenance.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I think carbons are awesome for any number of reasons - my ginga w2 is my favorite knife, hands down. But it sounds like this end user might place a premium on ease of maintenance.
 
I would first like to say thanks for all the replies!

Those that are worried about knife maintenance is that the deal is, if she cooks, I clean up. So maintenance isn't really an issue as I am the one making sure the knives get treated right 95% of the time.

Believe me, in the beginning, I had to break her of the bad habit of cutting things on ceramic plates. Drove me nuts, as she would wonder why her knives weren't sharp...lol. She also made the mistake of cutting on a thin flexible plastic board when I just got her the Santoku. Needles to say, she found out that she cut the board clean through. She has gotten the idea now though and treats them well and has wooden boards of all sizes. If I give her special treatment instructions about washing and drying a carbon blade when shes done with it, she is responsible enough to do it. She was just lacking in maintenance knowledge in the beginning. She now understands the simple fact that a "tradesman" needs 1) to have the right tools and 2) to treat their tools right.

Rayuela,

I know it's a little hard to understand the mindset, I definitely don't get it, but have just learned to accept it. She doesn't care enough to go research and find out what is best for what she is doing, and doesn't really think paying the money is worth it at first, until I get something that she likes and uses it. Then she fully appreciates it and is thankful for me for getting it. A lot of her gifts that I got her, she still uses and loves. In the beginning, she thought I was wasting money on it and now she sees what worth it has and loves that I got it for her. I told you it was weird. People on forums like these, will never understand that mindset and consider it foolish. I still don't myself. Don't understand it, just accept it...lol. I just make sure the right things get bought.
Even if she already has an 8" chef and a 7" Santoku you still think I should stick with a 210mm?

So far I got:

Konosuke HD2
Gesshin Ginga
Yusuke
Ikkanishi Tadatsuna
Wakui
Tanaka - might require a re-handle

How would you rate these in overall F&F and balance over one another? Maintenance aside, do you prefer the white 2 over the stainless?

Again, thanks in advance for all the help!
 
A 210 in any of these will be a game changer.

I would rate the GG, Tad, Suisin IH (how did this get missed?) as tied for first.
There is no second. :cool2:

Some 3 or 4 years ago I asked the same question about my first J knife. Got just about the same answer.
 
Classic iron-clad japanese steel will not only rust if left unattended after cooking, it can also rust whilst cooking if not wiped down. They pay off is that it feels nicer to sharpen on whetstones and you can get a better knife for less money. As you use a jig to sharpen, I can't see that it's worth it. Semi-stainless or stainless clad would be fine and a carbon monosteel would also be manageable once it developed a patina, but you'd make everyone's life easier by going for one of the first two options.

As regards the length, it depends. I'm 5'8", I cook all the time, I'm a knife-nut, and I don't go above 230-235mm for a chef's knife. 210 is really plenty of knife for a home cook, unless your wife is significantly taller than me or has a thing for swords.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
Adrenaline_6 said:
Hi guys,

I am looking to add to my wife's kitchen knife collection and get her a new one as a gift as well as a high quality pan but that is for another forum I guess.

I have bought all of her knives since I am the one into knives and she really doesn't care that much about them. She does appreciate the fact that she has good knives and that I got them for her though. She likes to cook but doesn't care too much about the tools she uses enough to go research and find out what to buy. That is my job I guess. That concept is weird to me because I am the exact opposite, and am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once". I personally have some nice folding knives and fixed blades and have decent knowledge about them, but am lacking in the kitchen knife knowledge department. So this is why I am looking for your expert suggestions.

I know sets and mass production are not really recommended here but I got an absolute ridiculous deal that I could not refuse on a Shun Classic set awhile back and still have never seen that deal again. So what she has now is an 8" Chef knife, a 6" Utility knife, a Bread knife. the pairing was stolen when we had a party at our house and was replaced with a Shun Kaji pairing knife in SG2. I also bough her a 7" hollow ground Santoku. I do find they chip easy and have repaired them a couple times. I was thinking of going a high quality carbon route for durability and build that collection on top of what she currently has.

I sharpen all the knives but use the same tools that I use on my folders and get decent results. I have an Edge Pro Apex for the big duties and a Spyderco Sharpmaker for the light duty. I also have a big 4 sided wooden strop for quick touch ups. I have a felt block and a loupe too. I probably need to get finer and a wider range of stones though for the kitchen knives unless this isn't advisable and I should go a whole new route for the kitchen knives.

I listed the recommended questions that pertain as best I could.

LOCATION
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
I would think she would probably appreciate a 240 or 270 Gyoto, but this is where you guys come in.

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
She likes the Shun handles just fine, but probably won't complain about either.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
I have spent $400 on a nice folder but I also like to look at bang for buck also. I don't mind spending the money as long as the price is justified.

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
She of course does all these tasks, but where would be the biggest void in what she currently has?

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
I think she hammer grips.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I am thinking she doesn't have a true laser to cut with to make her vegetable and meat slicing duties easier. I could be wrong.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I sharpen them, so she won't care. I like ease of sharpening and resistance to chipping over edge retention for kitchen knives.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes


My short time here perusing I have seen Tanaka, Konosuke, Gesshin, and a bunch of others mentioned repeatedly, so all help is appreciated.


Thanks ahead of time!!! If yuo need more info, I will monitor this thread and answer as best I can.
Click to expand...

chiffonodd said:
If you're looking for a laser, there are several usual suspects:

- ashi/gesshin ginga
- Sakai yusuke
- Ikkanishi Tadatsuna
- Konosuke HD2 / HH

The top three come in swedish stainless or white 2 carbon. The konosuke HD2 is a semi-stainless steel and the HH is also swedish stainless I believe. I don't think you addressed in the survey whether you preferred carbon or stainless steel but it sounds like maybe your wife would prefer stainless.

These knives are all pretty similar. You probably just want to settle on stainless versus carbon or semi-stainless and then just get whichever among them is in stock and suits your budget. You can get the Ginga direct from Ashi or from Jon at JKI. You can get the Tadatsuna from AFrames. Sakai Yusuke is sold by bluewayjapan on ebay. And the Konosukes are sold by several merchants but seem to be out of stock everywhere.
Click to expand...
actually i don't know much more about knives but i really want to learn . it is so interesting .
 
Rayuela said:
I'm 5'8"
Click to expand...

There's that height thing again! In choosing the correct length, it doesn't matter how tall you are.

Consider instead:
- Size of the product, What is getting cut? A garlic? A cabbage?
- KItchen space. Are you in a big kitchen? A galley on a boat? How much elbow room do you have? Counter space?
- cutting board size. Don't try to use a 270mm on a 6"x8" cutting board.
- grip. Pinch grip will make the knife shorter.
 
IndoorOutdoorCook said:
There's that height thing again! In choosing the correct length, it doesn't matter how tall you are.
Click to expand...

There is that school of thought. There are others as well. I've bought several Gyuto for wimins. It doesn't matter much what goes into the calculus, the answer is 180 or 210.

IMHO.
 
daveb said:
A 210 in any of these will be a game changer.

I would rate the GG, Tad, Suisin IH (how did this get missed?) as tied for first.
There is no second. :cool2:

Some 3 or 4 years ago I asked the same question about my first J knife. Got just about the same answer.
Click to expand...

+1 on the Suisin IH, somehow forgot to include it.

I want to share a bit of a story for the OP: when I joined the forum, my first post was also to ask for feedback on these very same knives, so I could choose the "best" among them. The overwhelming response was: they're all the best! You could close your eyes, reach into a box, and pull one of them out and be thrilled with your choice.

But for some reason I remained obsessed with this idea of getting the best one and kept trying to find microdetails to distinguish the knives (I don't mean stainless versus carbon, because each knife comes in a version of each, except for the konosuke, which is semi-stainless or stainless). I mean really ridiculously fine details, like the exact differences between the ginsanko of the tadatsuna, the 19c27 of the suisin IH, and the likely AEB-L of the ginga and yusuke. Experts in the know told me that only the absolute nerdiest of the nerdy knife nuts would perceive the differences between these knives. The only difference I was apprised of is that the suisin IH can benefit from a microbevel and that it has the nicest stock handle, because it is semi-octagonal (rounded on the bottom).

I wish I had listened to everyone and just picked one - it would have saved me months of agonizing.

So basically, I think the OP should just decide if he wants carbon, semi-stainless, or stainless, and then just get whichever knife is in stock at the best price. Bliss is then guaranteed :)

Also, for the OP, maintaining a carbon is not just a matter of coming in at the end and cleaning things up. The blade has to be continually maintained throughout food prep. A carbon knife will become less needy and reactive as patina (a benign form of oxidation) forms, but at least in the beginning, you want to be pretty vigilant. Jon has a great video on how a cook might want to care for a carbon knife throughout the cooking process:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tza5pymb5yg
 
IndoorOutdoorCook said:
There's that height thing again! In choosing the correct length, it doesn't matter how tall you are.
Click to expand...

I don't want to derail the thread and I agree that there are more important things than height (like space), but proportionately speaking a 210mm knife is to a 5' person as a 255mm knife is to a 6' person. Their hands and arms are not the same length. Height cannot be irrelevant here.

And, on topic, I agree with chiffonodd: don't agonise; buy!
 
I won't agonize too much, I've done this with other things many times before and now know better. I just use expert opinions and research to make better decisions.

The real problem is finding one of those 3 for sale. The Konosuke HD2, GG, and Suisin IH are hard to find in stock unless you want to pay more than the other retailers are selling them for, if at all. I guess I could email Ashi direct for the GG. I have time though. June 20 is my deadline.
 
Aframes had the stainless Tadatsunas in 210 and 240 earlier today. I have the white 2 270 and love it as much as any Konosuke I've handled.
 
Adrenaline_6 said:
I won't agonize too much, I've done this with other things many times before and now know better. I just use expert opinions and research to make better decisions.

The real problem is finding one of those 3 for sale. The Konosuke HD2, GG, and Suisin IH are hard to find in stock unless you want to pay more than the other retailers are selling them for, if at all. I guess I could email Ashi direct for the GG. I have time though. June 20 is my deadline.
Click to expand...

You can find things in stock and cheaper ordering direct, if that's what you want to do. Here are some options, all direct from Japan except the Tadatsuna:

- Suisin Inox Honyaki 240 for $300 USD. http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/houcho/item/h8su1240/?s-id=borderless_recommend_item_en

- Ashi Ginga swedish stainless 240 for ~$165 USD. http://www.ashihamono.com/products/gin_gyutoh.html

- Tadatsuna Inox for $275 USD. http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/ikkanshi-tadatuna-wa-gyuto-240mm-inox-bl240.html

- Sakai Yusuke Swedish Stainless Wa-Gyuto Knife 210mm Extra Harden & Thin for $199.99 USD. No link to active ebay auction due to forum regulations but currently available and in stock from bluewayjapan.

- Konosuke I have no idea. Check B/S/T :)

The most cost effective is easily to order the Ginga direct from Ashi. Apparently you can ask for them to boost the heat treat on the stainless to 61 HrC for a nominal cost.

FWIW, I got my Ginga from JKI and really enjoyed doing business with them. But if the knife is out of stock and you gotta have it, going direct with Ashi is the way to go.

Final note . . . The Suisin IH above is from rakuten. I've ordered from rakuten with no problems and so have others here, but you may not be comfortable with doing so.
 
Rayuela said:
I don't want to derail the thread and I agree that there are more important things than height (like space), but proportionately speaking a 210mm knife is to a 5' person as a 255mm knife is to a 6' person. Their hands and arms are not the same length. Height cannot be irrelevant here.

And, on topic, I agree with chiffonodd: don't agonise; buy!
Click to expand...

So, by this logic, all sushi chefs using 300mm yanagiba must be over 7' tall and line cooks with 12" knives are like 6'5".
 
IndoorOutdoorCook said:
So, by this logic, all sushi chefs using 300mm yanagiba must be over 7' tall and line cooks with 12" knives are like 6'5".
Click to expand...

I agree I don't think there is a linear relationship. I do however think there is a mechanics aspect such as shoulder height, arm length, counter height (with cutting board), etc. that has an effect.

I recently got my Misono Swedish Steel 360mm gyuto with dragon after a long back order, so by the linear model:

210mm
---------- = 42mm/' = §
5'

§^[-1] • 360mm = 8.57'

I know I'm not that tall.
 
Last edited:
Two thoughts, for what they may be worth (probably not much): (1) In view of the knives your wife already has, maybe you might consider a nakiri; and (2) If she is fairly satisfied with what she is already using, how about an end-grain cutting board (assuming she doesn't already have one) -- she might appreciate the looks (not to mention the functionality)?
 
IndoorOutdoorCook said:
So, by this logic, all sushi chefs using 300mm yanagiba must be over 7' tall and line cooks with 12" knives are like 6'5".
Click to expand...

Gosh, you're really stubborn, eh? I already agreed with you that other things are more important; I was just pointing out that height/size is not irrelevant. We give small children little knives and forks, because full size ones would be unwieldy for them. As they get bigger, so we give them bigger cutlery. The same principle is at work here. It's about the size of the knife relative to the person using it.

Of course little people can use big knives and vice-versa. I was just making a very basic and entirely incontrovertible point. Pick up a child's knife and you'll understand.
 
chiffonodd said:
You can find things in stock and cheaper ordering direct, if that's what you want to do. Here are some options, all direct from Japan except the Tadatsuna:

- Suisin Inox Honyaki 240 for $300 USD. http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/houcho/item/h8su1240/?s-id=borderless_recommend_item_en

- Ashi Ginga swedish stainless 240 for ~$165 USD. http://www.ashihamono.com/products/gin_gyutoh.html

- Tadatsuna Inox for $275 USD. http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/ikkanshi-tadatuna-wa-gyuto-240mm-inox-bl240.html

- Sakai Yusuke Swedish Stainless Wa-Gyuto Knife 210mm Extra Harden & Thin for $199.99 USD. No link to active ebay auction due to forum regulations but currently available and in stock from bluewayjapan.

- Konosuke I have no idea. Check B/S/T :)

The most cost effective is easily to order the Ginga direct from Ashi. Apparently you can ask for them to boost the heat treat on the stainless to 61 HrC for a nominal cost.

FWIW, I got my Ginga from JKI and really enjoyed doing business with them. But if the knife is out of stock and you gotta have it, going direct with Ashi is the way to go.

Final note . . . The Suisin IH above is from rakuten. I've ordered from rakuten with no problems and so have others here, but you may not be comfortable with doing so.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the info! I have ordered from rakuten before. The only concern would be shipping time. I have a wireless mouse that I ordered on the 12th and will finally get it today. Other times I have not had any problems.
 
larrybard said:
Two thoughts, for what they may be worth (probably not much): (1) In view of the knives your wife already has, maybe you might consider a nakiri; and (2) If she is fairly satisfied with what she is already using, how about an end-grain cutting board (assuming she doesn't already have one) -- she might appreciate the looks (not to mention the functionality)?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. That's the kind of feedback I was looking for when I listed the knives she already had. I was already looking at throwing in an end grain board. She has wood, but not end grain ones and I wanted to make sure the new investment was protected.

So now that a Nakiri is thrown into the possible mix, any recommendations anyone?
 
On second thought, too many options will make things worse for me. A Nakiri can be the next knife I buy her if she takes a fancy to the Gyuto, which I am sure she will.
 
I recommend that you buy from a local dealer in your country. If you have any issues with an overseas vendor through Rakuten, a returns process may be very painful. Well I guess it looks like you've already ordered. I know few females who would prefer a 270mm gyuto unless she is a professional in a busy kitchen doing serious prep work. I guess if she cooks for many people and has a huge cutting board with space to work, it would be appropriate. I would err on the smaller side here. 240 at most but even 210. Shuns are decent knives, but I think many of the professional cooks here with higher level knife skills dislike the Westernized profile of most Shun tips (except the Fuji). If your wife is a dedicated rock-chopper, then Shun is right up her alley. If your wife has good skills and uses the tip a lot (tip chopping, pull cutting), taking apart slabs of beef, then the Shun profile kinda sucks.
 
bkdc said:
I recommend that you buy from a local dealer in your country. If you have any issues with an overseas vendor through Rakuten, a returns process may be very painful. Well I guess it looks like you've already ordered. I know few females who would prefer a 270mm gyuto unless she is a professional in a busy kitchen doing serious prep work. I guess if she cooks for many people and has a huge cutting board with space to work, it would be appropriate. I would err on the smaller side here. 240 at most but even 210. Shuns are decent knives, but I think many of the professional cooks here with higher level knife skills dislike the Westernized profile of most Shun tips (except the Fuji). If your wife is a dedicated rock-chopper, then Shun is right up her alley. If your wife has good skills and uses the tip a lot (tip chopping, pull cutting), taking apart slabs of beef, then the Shun profile kinda sucks.
Click to expand...
I haven't ordered yet and yes, I have thought about the return process although factory direct shouldn't be that much of a problem. I will take your and others advice about the 210mm size and stick with that. Thanks for the input!

I am just deciding which one I think she would like best from a pure aesthetic standpoint since performance are for the most part equal.
 
daveb said:
One more click and you're done. Ships from Hawaii (I've recently learned), in hand next week.

http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/ikkanshi-tadatuna-wagyuto-210mm-inox-blade-kn210.html
Click to expand...

I ordered it today. I had to wait until the 10th because I didn't want it to show on this months credit card bill and my wife figure out what I got her before her actual birthday. I bought an end grain butcher block as well and a tri clad stainless set of pans. She will tell me I shouldn't have bought her all this stuff, but secretly she will love that I bought them.

Thanks for all the help!
 
Adrenaline_6 said:
I ordered it today. I had to wait until the 10th because I didn't want it to show on this months credit card bill and my wife figure out what I got her before her actual birthday. I bought an end grain butcher block as well and a tri clad stainless set of pans. She will tell me I shouldn't have bought her all this stuff, but secretly she will love that I bought them.

Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...

Congrats :) great gifts - curious to see what you all think of the tadatsuna. Lasers are funnn
 
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