Buying first knife! [Help]

Hi all, as you may know from the title I'm looking forward purchasing my very first kitchen chef knife.

A little about me, I'm not a professional, I don't cook for a living but I do cook for myself. Lately, I've been interested in cooking more and more, I do get excited buying kitchen appliances and makes me want to spend more time in the kitchen. The dishes I cook are usually for family, involving a lot of stir-fry that has vegetables and meat. Believe me, for all these time I've been using a blunt knife and it's incredibly hard cutting tomato with it and it's not even a proper knife. (I don't even know the technical term but the grip and the blade are the same height).

And so I've decided to buy myself all around kitchen knife (mostly for vegetables + meat, with no bone), I've been doing research as well reading from various sites like:
Information about Steels
Knife Blade Materials
Chemical Element Effects On The Steel
Knife Cladding Types

After skimming through these, it just confused me even more. Because now I don't know which type of element, material or cladding type I should be buying.

also some cladding types are preferred over others because it pushes the sliced meat, so chisel grind bevel blade caught my attention.
Demonstration:
[video=youtube;cESlGT85xHY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cESlGT85xHY&t=209[/video]



I have budget around $200~ Initially, was looking at a chef knife 'Shun Classic 8'' - Chef - DM0706'

Appreciate any information that would enlighten me, please post your opinion. Looking forward to it, thanks.

Welcome.

The video you attached? Over the guys shoulder? There's not a Shun in sight. There's a reason for that.

There is a questionnaire at the top of this sub-forum that will ask about your requirements and will let people make tailored recommendations. From you description it sounds like a Gyuto (chef knife) is in order, perhaps a Cleaver or Nakiri as well. The retailers that support this site (see sub-forums below) usually have descriptions/pics of different knife types and what they are used for. When buying a first good knife it will be important to have a way to maintain (sharpen) it.

Think about your knife budget, allocate at least 100 bucks for sharpening equipment, and fill out the questionnaire. You will probably find it more rewarding to start with one good knife and go from there.

Greetings!

+1 to what Dave said.

Also, delete from your brain anything you read about:
Information about Steels
Knife Blade Materials
Chemical Element Effects On The Steel
Knife Cladding Types

Thanks Jim. I tried to read that list but it made my brain hurt. Chemical elements effects on the guy wielding the steel would be more apropos...

Before you get too knife-buy happy,
You should consider what kitchen gear your NEED.
IMHO, everything nicer than the cheapest-of-the-cheap VG-10 steel knife is squarely in the WANTcategory.




If I was starting over from scratch again,
I'd be doing this with my first $300

????? Chef Knife
$20 Bread knife
$10 Paring knife
$30 Hone (ceramic)
$100 Dutch oven (7 qt)
$30 Saucier (2 qt)
$40 Carbon Steel pan (10")
$8 cutting board
$8 tongs
$9 whisk
$5 Ikea utensils set
$5 pair of wooden spoons
$20 Stainless mixing bowls
$15 Microplane

As a very serious home hobby chef. These are the things I consider essential in my cooking.
Everything except would be commercial grade (except the idea set).
That's what I consider a $300 starter kit.

I have a serious, seriously kitted out kitchen.
And my main knife is a $50 Tojiro DP.

After the first sharpening, that $200 Shun Classic won't perform any better than my knife.

LOCATION
Australia, Melbourne.



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto Japanese chef’s knife.

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed.

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Please explain the difference and impact, does one feel more comfortable than the other? Either way, I wouldn't mind a Wa-gyuto as long as it feels comfortable gripping. (i have medium size hand and slim fingers).

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
6" to 8"

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
I don't require a stainless knife, I don't mind having high-carbon or any sort of element that I could benefit from either for sharpness, durability and overall performance. However, I would need a proper guidance how to take care of a non-stainless knife.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$200~ for single knife, $150~ for sharpening equipment.



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
At home.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing, chopping and mincing vegetables and boneless meat.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Non-branded cheap, dull home knife.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Depends what I'm cutting, but I tend to have a back and forth circular motion.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Sharpness so I can slice thinner and faster. Well weight balanced, not too heavy and not too light. And obviously karma if it has Suminagashi or Damascus pattern, I really adore Hamon and have respect to the person forging the blade.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I'm not sure about technical terms, if having certain type of pattern will effect the property of the steel? Either way, I'm not looking for something specific in terms pattern. As long as it has a hamon, a wavy pattern, I'm fine with it. I prefer Suminagashi style patterns.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Improved balance! Not too heavy but not too light either!

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
I'm not sure about this one, right out of the box I'd like it to be already sharpened. I'm assuming I'll be able to do rock chopping, push cutting and most likely I'll be using the slicing motion often.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Please inform me about this, edge? We're talking about the tip of the knife or the whole blade? I don't know how long they last, but I'll probably want something that can last a little longer than average.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
I Have a rubber, plastic like cutting board. According to the information above, you would assume which type of knife I want, therefore which board would i need for that type of knife? (else assume I have all, because i'll buy it with the knife.)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
I have not sharpened knifes, but I'm familiar with stone sharpening and would possibly do that knowing that it takes longer time.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes definitely, I'm also well with hand motion, can imitate at ease.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes possibly a sharpening stone.



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
- Single wa-gyuto or gyuto chef knife.
- Single-bevel or chisel grind bevel (else tell me if there's a reason not to use these type of bevel)
- Looking for quality, hand-made that is sharp, durable and well balanced that can perform as stated and not stated for marketing.
- It can have patterns on it (IF IT DOES NOT EFFECT PERFORMANCE OR QUALITY)

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product/527

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product/184

Handled knives from both of these lines. Very good knives especially for the price; they do need some work out of the box to make it comfortable (a few minutes with some sandpaper to round out the spine and choil).

Also for those who are wondering I'm using this knife

Considering your are in Australia, i would take a look at tojiro at Knives and Stones http://www.knivesandstones.com/tojiro-powdered-high-speed-steel-gyuto-chef-240mm-f-521/

Since you like the damascus/suminagashi aesthetic, this fits the bill pretty well. Grab a couple of stones (or a combo stone) and you're set.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/saka...ascus/?page_context=category&faceted_search=0

NezX said:

LOCATION
Australia, Melbourne.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
6" to 8"

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$200~ for single knife, $150~ for sharpening equipment.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
...obviously karma if it has Suminagashi or Damascus pattern, I really adore Hamon and have respect to the person forging the blade.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I'm not sure about technical terms, if having certain type of pattern will effect the property of the steel? Either way, I'm not looking for something specific in terms pattern. As long as it has a hamon, a wavy pattern, I'm fine with it. I prefer Suminagashi style patterns.

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
- Single wa-gyuto or gyuto chef knife.
- Single-bevel or chisel grind bevel (else tell me if there's a reason not to use these type of bevel)
- Looking for quality, hand-made that is sharp, durable and well balanced that can perform as stated and not stated for marketing.
- It can have patterns on it (IF IT DOES NOT EFFECT PERFORMANCE OR QUALITY)

Click to expand...

You've a couple contradictory requirements, not uncommon when looking for first knife.

1st is easy. Quality Japanese knives are measured in mm and cm. The knife you are currently using is measured in inches. You don't want inches.

Quality damascus, hamon, and "patterns" are unusual in a knife at your price point. Key word is quality. Suggest a nice kasumi or mirror finish on your first. Kurochi is typically less expensive and a good value finish.

Rock choppng is not typically done with J Knives. They don't have the belly (rocking point) for it.

Single bevels. You probably don't want a single bevel as your first knife. They offer no advantage for normal household use, they will require special usage technique due to the flat belly, they are expensive to make well, they require different sharpening techniques, availability is limited. they are expensive. The closest SB to a Gyuto is a true Kiritsuke. (A Gyuto is double bevel - not single) Suggest that as you become more familiar with terminology that you will want to drop that requirement.

Good knives can be found at the $200 point. The suggestion to start with Knives and Stones is a good one. Hopefully some of the "down under" members can provide some more specific recommendations.

Hmm, thanks for the advice appreciate it! I've been looking around and around. I might end up buying "Ohishi Sakon Damascus 180mm Gyuto".

Looks like they have great specs: SKD11, HRC 63-64 and yeah it's French profile which I don't mind at all.

daveb said:

You've a couple contradictory requirements, not uncommon when looking for first knife.

1st is easy. Quality Japanese knives are measured in mm and cm. The knife you are currently using is measured in inches. You don't want inches.

Quality damascus, hamon, and "patterns" are unusual in a knife at your price point. Key word is quality. Suggest a nice kasumi or mirror finish on your first. Kurochi is typically less expensive and a good value finish.

Rock choppng is not typically done with J Knives. They don't have the belly (rocking point) for it.

Single bevels. You probably don't want a single bevel as your first knife. They offer no advantage for normal household use, they will require special usage technique due to the flat belly, they are expensive to make well, they require different sharpening techniques, availability is limited. they are expensive. The closest SB to a Gyuto is a true Kiritsuke. (A Gyuto is double bevel - not single) Suggest that as you become more familiar with terminology that you will want to drop that requirement.

Good knives can be found at the $200 point. The suggestion to start with Knives and Stones is a good one. Hopefully some of the "down under" members can provide some more specific recommendations.

Click to expand...

J knives? you mean Japanese knives or something else? I'm pretty sure the chef knife has a sort of curve that you can use the "rock-chopping" technique.


example
tl;dr = Guy using "classic chef’s knife" as stated in description. Also applying rock-chopping, I'm not sure if I understood your statement correctly, could you please elaborate a little bit?

I stopped watching when he sawed through a carrot.

As to rock chopping, depending on your technique and the knife it is possible; many people wind up torquing the knife too much and the hard edge can fail. Some profiles are more French and do not go well with rock chopping. Suggest you look elsewhere for technique--check out some of Rick Theory's or Saltydog's videos.

BTW, wouldn't necessarily think a knife in the 63-64 range of hardness would be great for a beginner. It will chip if you torque it.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.co...gyuto/?page_context=category&faceted_search=0

there's a kurouchi finish version for a few dollars more.

though I highly suggest you consider going up to a 240mm for your first good knife if you have the space. To me, that's a good intermediate size.

sorry, few dollars left.

Re rock chopping:

There are 2 shapes of chef knives.

German and French



The German blade style has more of a pronounced belly and the tip is higher.
This is more conducive to rock chopping.
Henckels, Wusthof and Shuns are typically German shaped.

Whereas the French blade style has less of a curve, thus a bigger flat spot.
This is more conducive to push and draw cuts.
Almost all Japanese chef knives (aka gyuto) are French style.

i am planing to get my first authentic kitchen knife .so any suggestion for me ? and i want to know the price .i mean normally

Culverin said:

Re rock chopping:

There are 2 shapes of chef knives.

German and French

The German blade style has more of a pronounced belly and the tip is higher.
This is more conducive to rock chopping.
Henckels, Wusthof and Shuns are typically German shaped.

Whereas the French blade style has less of a curve, thus a bigger flat spot.
This is more conducive to push and draw cuts.
Almost all Japanese chef knives (aka gyuto) are French style.

Click to expand...

Culverin - Good illustration. Sort of. Pls, Pls, Pls don't use a Global to depict Japanese knives. The knife gods will be angered.

clairelv said:

i am planing to get my first authentic kitchen knife .so any suggestion for me ? and i want to know the price .i mean normally

Click to expand...

Claire - For a response tailored to your requirements pls start a thread and fill out the questionnaire here.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...hich-Knife-Should-I-Buy-quot-Questionnaire-v2