Nice semi-mirror finisher for wide bevels?

Probably the wrong place to ask, but I figure I'll toss this out there.

I do a fair bit with carbon wide bevels and occasionally like to thin or tweak them for performance. After a little bit of low-grit work (JNS 300 mostly), I try to clean them up and get a pretty uniform finish using a JNS 800.

Of course, the JNS 800 finish is not really adequate even if I manage to make it completely consistent. The finish has a bit of drag and sticks to food more than I like, so I typically clean it up a bit. Right now, I'm using the JNS synthetic red aoto, and that usually does an OK job of refining the 800 finish a bit.

However, I don't really have any great choices for finishing stones beyond this point. I have a natural Wakasa with some nagura that I could probably use, but it is a little bit hard for the iron cladding and is better for edges and razors. I snagged a "small hakka" from Maksim at one point, but it's a bit small to use as a standalone stone. My Naniwa magnesia 4k and 8k stones are nice for sharpening, but do not produce a very uniform finish.

Lately, I've been jumping from the synth red aoto to either micromesh or (my preference) 3m sanding sponges. They usually do a fine job of smoothing out some of the red aoto streaks and scratches, but the edge tends to retain a rather fine scratch pattern that is a bit stubborn. They require a light touch to avoid gouging or cutting into (especially with the heel/tip), and polishing the edge a little higher first would be nice.

I recently used my little hakka to put a reasonably nice finish on one of my Zakuri bevels. With the stone size, it wasn't easy to get super-consistent results, but it looked alright. I followed it up by running it over a balsa pad loaded with autosol (all I had at the moment) and the results aren't too far off from what I'm l'm hoping for. I might try to clean it up first with Trizact 3k and 5k, then hit a loaded balsa "buffer" pad again.

So I'm curious...are there any good synthetics or "inexpensive" naturals of moderate (not huge) size that can get me in the neighborhood of what I want? I'm guessing the JNS or JKI 6K or maybe the King 6K might be able to get me a nice mirrorish edge, but I worry that they'll put some irregular scuffs on the cladding like my Naniwa "Pure White" 8K does, and those scuffs don't always work out easily with other abrasives. The hakka did a pretty nice job, but full-sized pieces are beyond my budget (say, under $200usd, hopefully under $150).

I have no problem with "low contrast" semi-mirror finishes, so if a synthetic can get me a consistent look that refines beyond the synthetic red aoto, I've no problem with it. A splash-and-go-type natural would be cool, but I'm not sure if it's reasonable.

Any advice?

Takashima sounds right up your alley. Both Maxim and Jon usually sell them, check JNS for pictures of the finish.

I use the natural red aoto that will occasionally show up for sale but they're a little pricier.

Dardeau said:

Takashima sounds right up your alley. Both Maxim and Jon usually sell them, check JNS for pictures of the finish.

I use the natural red aoto that will occasionally show up for sale but they're a little pricier.

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+1

A very consistent and underrated stone for around $200USD or less. I think you might be hard pressed to get much better for the money in a natural. As suggested, JNS regularly gets nice examples in stock.

I did Gesshin 400, followed by King 800 and then finished w/ Blue Aoto. I thought it came out fairly decent for my first go at it.
The celly doesn't do this much justice, in fact makes it look a bit rough. But towards the tip it shows well...

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I have been contemplating one of the cheap new aiiwatani koppa from Maksim and the hideriyama and takashima from Jon, but haven't had much chance to see the finishes in detail, so I've been reluctant to pull the trigger.

Since I'm following up probably with other abrasives, the primary goals are consistency and fineness of the scratches. Obviously some of that will be up to technique, but it's also apparent that some stones just won't get me where I want. With heavy slurry or liberal asano nagura use, I can get an OK finish off my harder Wakasa, but it's a lot trickier and not better than what comes off my little hakka block (which is only like 30mm wide).

what about a nakayama from aframes tokyo? I was thinking of getting one of the smaller ones for myself

FWIW, I'm looking to achieve something not too far from what I've done on this piece, but you can see the scratches on the core steel and I'd like to get that a little more mirrorish if possible.

CoqaVin said:

what about a nakayama from aframes tokyo? I was thinking of getting one of the smaller ones for myself

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Short answer is that it's mostly an unknown. I guess I could email him and ask for advice, but I figured I'd see if anyone around here has some insights that might help.

Most of my stones are from Maksim simply because of the shipping costs, but I'm open-minded about getting stones from JKI or Aframestokyo. Just not really sure what will yield what I'm after, and while I don't mind using natural stones, I'm not going to be obsessed with collecting them.

It's possible that 50% of the stone options out there will get me something like what I want, but it'd be nice to make a more confident decision.

I hear ya, the nakayamas are known for achieving exactly what you are looking for, I think ?

XooMG, Im searching for a similar finish like the kind you want also. I would be interested to hear what stone you decide to purchase and how it works out for you. Good luck.

After your 800 finish, have you tried using your nagura stones directly on the blade like one would with a fingerstone? I had good luck finishing with a coarse stone to get that hazy cladding look, and then polished up the core using naguras directly on steel with pretty decent results. Might be worth a try with some of your naguras to see if any of them are the right match to polish but not ruin the cladding haze, and get that semi-polished look on the core.

Thanks for the additional suggestions.

I have tried my various nagura on the bevels and have had generally poor luck achieving any consistency with them. Most are just too hard. When I attacked my wakasa with a diamond plate to raise some crazy slurry, I got OK results but I'd rather not do that, and it's tough to get it consistent across the blade without several slurry raisings, which seems like a waste of that stone.

Talked to Jon briefly and the takeaway is that a single stone that can achieve the finish I'm after is an expensive proposition, but my gut instinct is that the takashima/hideriyama-class stones can get me in the general neighborhood where I can do some refinement using less elegant techniques (loaded balsa, 3m sponges, etc.)

In a moment of irrationality that might cost me down the road, I ordered a JNS 6k (partly to experiment, partly because I want to replace my Naniwa 4k magnesia stone) and a little ai'iwatani 相岩谷 to try out. I don't need the stones to get me perfect finishes, but they should set me up with a reasonably consistent finish with finer scratches than the JNS synthetic red aoto can provide.

I may still crack and try something else, but this may at least quell my immediate curiosity.

What about Dave's Synthetic "Blue" Aoto? http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/product-p/synaoto2.htm
It says there it is used after King 800x to get the hazy look you are looking for, i imagine.