Help me find my next three knives

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Northernmonkey

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KNIFE TYPE

I think I want a new Petty, Gyuto and a Nakiri. At some point I'd like to get a slicer (sujihike?), but I can get by with my sabatier carving knife for a good while as it's not terrible.

I'm right handed.

I'd like to move over to wa-handles. I've not had a great deal of experience with them, having not used one before outside of some shops where I got to heft and feel them so I couldn't do a detailed breakdown of D/O/Octagonal.


Gyuto - 210 or 240

Nakiri - 165 (I think, am less sure here)

Petty 150. My current petty is 110mm and I want something longer than that.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

At the moment I think I want to stick with Stainless. I keep going back and forth on this because of price/quality with carbon blades, but i'm wary on reactivity, upkeep etc. Semi-Stainless or Stainless clad are possible depending on how much extra work maintaining them will be.

£500 ($750) max for the three knives, ideally keeping it closer to £400 ($600) as I also need to get a new stone, rod and some assorted other knife-related things.



KNIFE USE

At home, I cook from scratch almost every knight with a wide variety of cooking.

Slicing/chopping vegetables, slicing and trimming meat, occasional cutting down poultry. No major butchery though.

I tend to use a pinch or hammer grip.

I use push-cut, rock and chop, with probably some daily walking for herbs.

Aesthetics matter but aren't essential compared to function. I do like the look of hammered finish for something that stands out but there are a lot of finishes which look stunning.

Ideally something I can use right out of the box with minimal touch up. My freehand skills are not great, which has been a problem with my DPs as their edges needed a lot of work when I got them. Edge retention and ease of sharpening are definitely important, and so is better food release.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE

I have one end grain board and intend on getting another, a couple of bamboo boards and 1 synthetic with plans to get a rubber one as well.

I do sharpen my own knives, I have a mid-grade (800-1k) ceramic honing rod and will be getting a 2200 rod. I also have some naniwa synthetic stones and will get another 1-2 from JNS in the next few months.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

While I've done a lot of lurking and reading, I'm still feeling out of my depth on knowing why one knife maker is better than another, or better for what i'm looking for. I'm prepared to order from Japan but US shipping to the UK tends to make any purchase prohibitively expensive.
 
Hi there, I'm in Leeds and will pm you now with some suggestions!
 
These look like a good deal:
http://www.chuboknives.com/collections/takamura

For the price you'd be hard put to beat them, and only $7 postage.

I have a Takamura Hana which I like a lot. Stinky sharp ootb and stays sharp for a long, long time.
I don't have any problems sharpening the R2 (powdered) steel.
I have a variety of stainless and carbon knives, my favourites are my Takamura and Tanaka R2 knives.


These Tanaka knives are also good value:

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/5

I have a 240 blue 2, a nice knife.

I've bought from both, metalmaster doesn't seem to respond to emails much, but other than that, no problems.

The other suggestions are all good knives.

Good luck
 
didn't I hear that intinomonns are no longer being made or something ?
 
Thanks for all the responses so far.

Marcelo Amaral said:
If you are not in a hurry, you could get in touch with Maksim (Denmark) and ask him for these, which are now out of stock:

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-210mm-wa-gyuto/

Good luck!
Click to expand...

As you say they're out of stock right now. I did email Maksim to ask and he said that he hopes they'll be back in stock next month but doesn't know for certain. It does look like a great option for the Gyuto though I don't know how it compares to other knives around that price point such as the Ashi Hamono 'Ginga' stainless steel knives I read someone posting about ordering from Japan at what looked to be a very reasonable price.


havox07 said:
You stay away from my 240 kasumi, I've been waiting months for them to restock!
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced on it yet, but if I decide on one then i'm sure he'd be getting more than one in stock.

kevpenbanc said:
These look like a good deal:
http://www.chuboknives.com/collections/takamura

For the price you'd be hard put to beat them, and only $7 postage.

I have a Takamura Hana which I like a lot. Stinky sharp ootb and stays sharp for a long, long time.
I don't have any problems sharpening the R2 (powdered) steel.
I have a variety of stainless and carbon knives, my favourites are my Takamura and Tanaka R2 knives.


These Tanaka knives are also good value:

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/5

I have a 240 blue 2, a nice knife.

I've bought from both, metalmaster doesn't seem to respond to emails much, but other than that, no problems.

The other suggestions are all good knives.

Good luck
Click to expand...
The Takamura Hana's have western-style blades so not what I'm looking for. I'll take a look through the Tanaka blades and try to find reviews on here of them. Their stainless Gyuto seem remarkably cheap in comparison to anything else I've seen though which I'm unsure on why that is.


CoqaVin said:
didn't I hear that intinomonns are no longer being made or something ?
Click to expand...

As I said above, I emailed Maksim and he said he hopes to get them back in stock next month. Don't know if that means a last order, whether he's not heard the news you have or it's just an incorrect rumour.

~~

Is there anything with a hammered finish in my price-range which people would recommend, or is there a reason I should avoid that aesthetic? While I know function+form aren't automatically going to go together in my price range, I'd like to get a better grip on what blades for around $200-$250 each should be like in terms of quality so I know what I'm looking for or comparing.
 
Northernmonkey said:
The Takamura Hana's have western-style blades so not what I'm looking for. I'll take a look through the Tanaka blades and try to find reviews on here of them. Their stainless Gyuto seem remarkably cheap in comparison to anything else I've seen though which I'm unsure on why that is.
Click to expand...

Tanaka has a reputation for poor fit and finish, but good steel. It is certainly a lot of knife for the money.
My Tanaka 240 blue 2 has been my main knife for the last 2 years, and has only recently been usurped by my Tanaka 270 R2 - different Tanakas.

I missed the requirement for yo handle, my bad. It's a shame because the Takamuras are in a whole different league to my other knives (except Tanaka R2) when it comes to edge holding and ability to glide through food. If he did a 240 I'd order it in a heartbeat.

Have fun.
 
kevpenbanc said:
My Tanaka 240 blue 2 has been my main knife for the last 2 years, and has only recently been usurped by my Tanaka 270 R2 - different Tanakas.
Click to expand...

What do you mean different Tanaka's? They are both made by Shigeki Tanaka (and helpers) aren't they?
 
The R2 line were originally purported to made by Kazuyuki Tanaka (father), but he passed a couple of years ago. Tanaka knives are made by Shigeki and Hideyuki Tanaka iirc.
 
Just a thought, but doing for one knife at a time can be overwhelming so maybe focus on one first.

The Tanaka and Itonomonn will have somewhat similar cutting characteristics compared with say Ashi. The Ashi will glide more easily through food but good will tend to stick more to the knife...depends on the characteristics you like.
 
There are a few makers working for Tanaka now, the R2 western handle is made by another highly regarded maker within the Miki knife association.
 
Long continuation of part 1.

So I've been doing a lot of reading. I thought I'd done a lot of reading on here before but concentrating onto specific blades and makers has seen my firefox tabs explode. I'm sure I'm missing some of the ones I've come across but the following are the ones that have stood out in this price range, been frequently mentioned on here etc. I can't tell if X or Y would be better for me (though with Chinacats advice, I'm starting to think that the Ashi Hamono might stick to food too much which is a shame as price-wise they look good) , or if they're 'worth the money' in comparison to others so I'm hoping to get some hand-holding here as I move forwards.

Gyuto

Shiro Kami Kurai 240mm Gyuto (£190+shipping)

Konosuke GS 240mm Gyuto (£220, might be available for less)

Konosuke Stainless Steel 240mm Wa-Gyuto (£165, might be available for less)

(Am unsure how much of a difference there is between the 'regular' stainless steel and the GS to justify the price jump. Help?)

Takamura R2 Mikagi Gyuto (chefsmes), 210 mm (£160, not a wa-handle and only 210mm but highly recommended by someone in this thread)

Itinomonn StainLess Kasumi 240mm Wa Gyuto (£180, not available at the moment)

Kurosaki R2 Wa Gyuto 245mm (£220+shipping+tax)

Ashi Hamono 240mm wa-Gyuto (105+shipping+tax)

(Metamaster were sold out of the Tanaka stainless 240 and 210 gyuto)

Nakiri

Sakai Takayuki 45 Layer Damascus Wa Nakiri 160mm (105+tax)

Tadafusa S42 Nakiri Tsuchime 165 mm (£75)

Yu Kurosaki R2 Wa-Nakiri 160mm (£170+tax)

Ashi Hamono (£88+shipping+tax)




I'm still working on the Petty options as they get less talk here for me to try and filter the differences and recommendations.
 
N-Monk,

Like most newcomers to J-knives, you are suffering from information overload. To make matters worse, you are attempting to make a decision based on someone else's opinion, rather than your own, because you must rely on pictures and the written word rather than actually using the knife. Not that anyone is trying to steer you in the wrong direction, but that's just how it is.

If I can make a suggestion, it would be to buy one knife, use it and get to know how its particular strengths and weaknesses fit with your needs and desires. Take enough time to be able to assess its edge retention and your ability to sharpen it. This may take a few weeks, but it is an investment of time that will pay off when you buy your next knife. I wish I had done this when I first got involved with J-knives, as it would have saved me much time and money.

As to a specific knife for you to get to begin your journey, from what I have read, I would suggest that you get a Tanaka ginsanko nakiri from Metalmaster. My reasoning is as follows: it is an inexpensive knife ($48 USD plus shipping and import tax); it is stainless (one of your criteria); it is a style of knife that is new to you; it is a so-called "wide bevel" blade, which is an aid to maintaining the geometry when you sharpen it, as well as contributing to good food release; and, based on my experience with Tanaka knives, it comes with an acceptable edge OOTB.

Now, there are some downsides to this knife. It does not have anywhere near the level of fit and finish that more expensive knives have. The wa-handle is plain Japanese magnolia (ho wood) with a resin (plastic) ferrule, and the fitment of the ferrule to the wood is crude, to say the least. The spine is somewhat sharp-edged in comparison to higher priced knives, though that is easily remedied with a little time and a file and sandpaper. It does not have a mirror polish on the side of the blade, but rather a nashiji (pear-skin) finish. (Actually this is a plus where food release is concerned.) But it more than makes up for these shortcomings by having excellent geometry and steel.

I hope I haven't added to your confusion.

Welcome to the world of J-knives,

Rick
 
+1 Agreed Rick, I wish I had done the same thing, get something cheap but still good, then find out what are your likes and dislikes of the knife, then go from there
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
4

I hope I haven't added to your confusion.

Welcome to the world of J-knives,

Rick
Click to expand...

I really appreciate the advice but probably should have been clearer in my first post. I already have some J-Knives, albeit more mass-produced ones than hand forged.

I have 3 Tojiro DP, a 120mm petty, 210 Gyuto and a Nakiri. The fit and finish on them all is pretty meh, actually I went through 2 Gyuto and 2 Nakiri to end up with ones which were okay as the first that arrived were in really poor condition, loose handle etc. I also have two Senkou, a 130mm petty and a 180mm gyuto. The Senkou petty is probably my favourite of all of these, for some reason it's far easier to sharpen than the gyuto and holds an edge for longer, though that could be down to my technique. The gyuto's handle is a bit too chunky and heavy for my preference as i've gotten more used to using it over the years.
 
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