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zilt

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The title pretty much says it all.

From what I gather one needs sharpening stone(s), flattening stone, stone holder with something to keep it stable (pad, fixture or otherwise). What else?

I've recently got my first quality knife and I was wondering how much would it cost me to get into sharpening myself. (I'm in Canada)

Second question: Should I get a "practice" knife to get the hang of it? If so, a new inexpensive knife or a used beat-up knife?

Thanks in advance.
 
I went down to goodwill and bought up the best of the crappy knives to practice on.
I think i got pretty good.
What i really learned was how the different steels and existing grinds feel on stones and how they behave on an onion belt sharpener.
The variety gave me a real crash course without much risk of doing andy damage to my significantly more $$ knives.
 
In terms of what kind of practice knives to use...I kinda wrecked one of my stones sharpening a lot of crappy stainless knives. I wouldn't do that again. Get some cheap carbon knives of the BST or e-bay, etc. I think you will actually learn more and faster with that....and will save your stones.
 
I did the goodwill route and I don't regret it. It helped me learn how to control the wetness of the slurry on the stone and play with angles or sharpening. The first 2-3 times my Sharpening was shaky but slowly improved. Don't even use marker anymore lol. If you buy stones most come with holders my two naniwa and two shapton both do. I just put them on a damp cloth to keep them in place. I'd look around and find a 1k and 5k stone and move on from there. Most likely to an 8/12k and a dmt plate. Look in the us canadas retailers tend to price stones highly. I know it was cheaper for me to buy a 1 and 5 k stone and ship it here than just a 5k at knifewear( I like knifewear by the way) 5 knives have come from them. Another option is Ebay direct from Japan. I think I saw them shapton stones in the 30's which seemed cheap.
 
Godslayer, what the hell do you use 8 and 12k on, razors?
 
Suehiro Deluxe Stone Holder.

Atoma 140 Diamond Plate

Beston 500

Bester 1200

Suehiro Rika 5k

Felt Strop with Diamond Spray.

Done.
 
chinacats said:
Godslayer, what the hell do you use 8 and 12k on, razors?
Click to expand...

Razors, I also use the 8k shapton glass for knives as a final stone. Mainly for the polished look it gives, I really like it as it contrasts kurochi finishes well.
 
Borrowing some friends knives to sharpen that are halfway decent is an idea, they will appreciate it too. I used the house forschners at work for some initial practice before taking my expensive knives to the stones. I recently paid $75 for a Zakuri gyuto off of BST that originally came from JKI to practice thinning, sharpening and blade finishes on. Id think for around $100 usd you could find a combo stone or a 1k/5k and a decent practice knife. Really just a 1k if you wanted to start off small, you should be able to set a bevel and easily shave hair coming off of it. I had too many stones starting off and I would jump to the next one before I should have. Was a revelation to me when I figured out how sharp you can actually get something off of a 500 or 1k grit stone when properly used. Might take some shopping and buying from 2 different people/places. Keep on eye on BST, great place to find deals and if you find someone to buy stones from they can probably lap it before sending it if you ask nicely. A kitchen towel can usually work to hold the stone in place as long as it's around 30mm tall or so. Works for me atleast. And a lapping plate can be expensive $50-$65 for a DMT, $65-90 for an Atoma. That's in the US, not sure what it might be in Canada. They are necessary but you should make sure you want to really pursue the sharpening thing before spending the money on a lapping plate. Thus buying pre lapped stones.
 
Or try Toronto based Tosho, one of the sponsoring retailers here.

I've never understood the "practice" knife school of thought. You would have to do a lot of wrong for a long time to get a knife where it's not recoverable. If you start with the knives you'll use, you'll get those knives sharp.
 
Cashn said:
They are necessary but you should make sure you want to really pursue the sharpening thing before spending the money on a lapping plate. Thus buying pre lapped stones.
Click to expand...

If you are going to sharpen, you will need something to flatten your stones. Yes, they come flat, but usually need to have the edges tuned and release the initial crud from the surface. Best is a diamond plate, anything else and you will be replacing it before anything else you buy.

Stones really need to be flattened before every use and sometimes during use to maintain a good surface--don't try to skimp on this part of the equation.

daveb said:
I've never understood the "practice" knife school of thought. You would have to do a lot of wrong for a long time to get a knife where it's not recoverable. If you start with the knives you'll use, you'll get those knives sharp.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%
 
I can understand getting crappy knives to practice on. When I first started down the crazy knife road I was so scared I was going to do irreparable harm to my precious expensive knives. So I get it.
I also like the argument about trying out the different steels on different stones, etc.
To the OP, I say get a 300/400 ish stone. Get an 800/1000 ish stone. Get something in the 4000/5000 range as well.Get something to flatten with also.
I think King stones are excellent for the beginner on a budget. Hell, Kings are still in my rotation.
Also find a cheap-ish carbon blade and a decent stainless(maybe a VG10) to "practice" on.
Just my :2cents:
The King 800 is one of my all-time favorites as is the King Ice Bear 4000.
 
My argument for training knives is this. My average j knife is $200 I spent 3-5 a knife for the few I practiced on. I love my knives. My knives are my precious partners in the kitchen. I didn't have the confidence to sharpen them.... A dull knife would and should make me cry. So I practed a few times and boom when I Sharpened my gyuto today for the first time I felt ready. Like a kid who just took of training wheels. If that makes any sense.
 
Godslayer said:
My argument for training knives is this. My average j knife is $200 I spent 3-5 a knife for the few I practiced on. I love my knives. My knives are my precious partners in the kitchen. I didn't have the confidence to sharpen them.... A dull knife would and should make me cry. So I practed a few times and boom when I Sharpened my gyuto today for the first time I felt ready. Like a kid who just took of training wheels. If that makes any sense.
Click to expand...

Doesn't it feel good!?!?
Congrats!
 
Once you have a set of stones, bring it over to your friends house when you visit and sharpen all their knives. No need to buy cheap knives to practice. 99% of people I know have only dull knives, and they are more than happy when people want to sharpen it for them. They might think you are weird at first, but who cares. :p
 
Do you think the strop is essential? I don't really feel the need for one, myself.

I've seen mixed reviews of the Beston 500. Are there other widely available, good low-grit stones we could recommend? I'm very happy with my JNS 300. I was going to say shipping to Canada will suck, but it seems JNS offers free shipping if you spend over $150.
 
perneto said:
Do you think the strop is essential? I don't really feel the need for one, myself. .
Click to expand...

Short answer; no.

IMO, the only things that are truly crucial are a middle grit i800-1200) stone & a flattener
 
Do not skimp on the coarse diamond plate it has multiple uses. Works well to keep your stones flat. Also for repairs chips and slight broken tips. It can be used for thinning thick rounded really dull blades. I only use trailing stroke on a coarse plate & lift the knife off the plate for return stroke. Buy doing this takes a little longer than keeping blade on plate, but the diamonds cut fast and much less chance of scratching the sides of the knife. The scratches are only as far up as your thinning bevel. The edge scratches can be taken out with your stone.

A stone holder is optional. Always just use a rag a work. At home cut a piece of 2X4 to fit sink area. I do use one of those black holders for my diamond plates keeps them from sliding around doing repairs or thinning blades.

Strop cheapest & works well is newspaper.

Cannot go wrong with the 1200 Bester & 5K Rika.
 
perneto said:
Do you think the strop is essential? I don't really feel the need for one, myself. .
Click to expand...

Short answer; no. However, I highly reccomend them.

The only thing you really need is a flattener and medium (800-1200) stone. After that, a coarse (300-500) and finer (2K-6k) stones make a full bare-bones setup.

I say master this progression before anything else.

After that, work on building good habits. If you touch up your edges often on finer grits, you won't have to dip into coarser stones. This means longer lasting knives & stones.

If you use your knives regularly, and you can go a whole month without dipping below your finest grit stone, you're ready for a strop.

IMO, way more convienient to snag the piece of leather hanging off the wall than to set up my sharpening station.
 
The OP took the subject right out of my mouth. I am also leaning towards Rick's recs., but possibly considering switching the stones out for splash n gos... maybe Shaptons. I hear great things about both sets, so I am hoping whichever way I go I'll be happy.

Can anyone speak on their recommended de-burring tool/method? I am leaning towards just using wine corks as I have tons in a drawer, but I would be willing to drop additional coin for something better.
 
I use wine corks, sometimes olive œil corks. Serves me well.
 
I have a bit of leather glued to each side of a piece of soft pine for a strop. To deburr I just pull ithe blade through the pine. Seems to work fine and hasn't damaged the block too much. On one side the leather is loaded with polishing compound and one side is raw to clean up the blade afterwards.

I think the 800-1000 stone is most important. Pony up for a good one. If you're on a budget flatten it on wet & dry sandpaper. After that get a 3000-5000 stone, then a 300-400 and your diamond plate. The sandpaper works just fine if you have one or two stones and only a few knives to sharpen at each session.
 
Butters said:
I have a bit of leather glued to each side of a piece of soft pine for a strop. To deburr I just pull ithe blade through the pine. Seems to work fine and hasn't damaged the block too much. On one side the leather is loaded with polishing compound and one side is raw to clean up the blade afterwards.
Click to expand...

I did exactly the same ;)
 
If just one synthetic stone, I'd go for a 3000ish (I've used Chosera). If a second, then maybe an 800 (King, JNS) or perhaps a 600 (Chosera) or, okay, a 1000. Synth stones often come with bases, and if not just use a cloth or non-slip mat instead of a holder, or even just make your own wooden sink bridge.

You can strop just fine on your finer stone. You could also get into various other stop stuff like diamond sprays, etc, but be assured these are more new world products rather than things used by sharpeners in Japan. Being minimal, on the other hand, is probably the best way to develop technique.
 
Dave (the Dave) told me to get that setup. Never looked back, never got a wandering eye, read others posts only for intellectual pleasure. The right tools for the job once you get a bucket and a 2x4.
 
I say get a atoma 400 for flattening stones from 800 up to 6k and a king 800 and gesshin 4000 soaker.

Don't waste your money like I did.
 
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