Help picking type of steel for travel use (carbon or stainless)?

Sorry for the newbie long post but I need some expert advice/real world experience in picking a blade material for my unique needs, I know the brand and model/shape but not the best blade material:

SCENARIO:
I'm a part time traveling hobbiest chef, cooking for 1-2 weeks at a time for a group of 15-25 people, 10+ times a year. Almost exclusively tropical environments, high humidity. We rent private villas for our group and some kitchens are well stocked with great cutting board options, others leave me scrambling to go buy a cheap wooden plank at the local market.

Although I travel with a variety of tools in the roll, I'm often pressed for time/space and this knife does a lot of quick cutting where I'd normally go reach for another tool in the home kitchen; it will see some abuse (plus, there's always a drunk model at 4am finding my roll and grabbing my knife to hack apart a coconut on the stone counter)

My go-to travel has been the Global G4, I prefer lightweight and I'm a sloppy cook so the easy to clean handle has been great and it's a thin and lightweight knife I was very comfortable holding. It recently was damaged beyond repair, and it wasn't the best knife to use anyway, so I'm looking for a better replacement.

I'm waiting to be approved to buy a real Kramer for "home" use, and read 100's of threads about different options and brands and what not, so all things considered, I've pretty much settled on a Zwilling Kramer knife line for this travel main use knife. I need help in deciding, is the carbon steel (will be my first carbon knife) or the stainless damascus blade a better choice?


CONCERNS:
As much as I'm attracted to the carbon blade's benefits, the high humidity environments concern me with keeping it from rusting. Last April I spent the entire month in Bali in an open air kitchen. 85% humidity, no AC, I don't think the towels were ever drier than "damp"!

1. How will the carbon blade hold up rust wise and is there something that can be done to clean it/treat it after use other than drying it off? "dry" is a somewhat relative term and not sure how "dry" I am going to be able to get it/keep it in each environment

2. Is there a good sheath to use that helps whisk away moisture or keep rust free in my roll (I already keep silica packets in my travel roll, a UE 3 section bag)?

3. Is there a home-remedy type way to best store/protect a carbon blade in high humidity environments (open to any wild ideas here...someone jokingly suggested wrapping it in a child's diaper since they're designed to absorb and pull away moisture...I'm open to any suggestion)

4. Which blade will hold an edge longer/better given unknown cutting surfaces and a wide variety of cutting needs? I have stones to resharpen at home but don't want to travel with them, but have only been traveling with a basic ceramic rod.

5. Am I right in thinking the stainless damascus blade would be a better overall choice for my travel needs? (home kitchen use is unrelated as that's it's own knife block and that set doesn't travel).

Budget isn't really a concern and I'm not really interested in a debate about the brand or model of my choice (a ceramic blade is probably my best choice but I just don't like the feel and are too fragile), so please, just suggestions on which blade material will fit my needs best.


PLEASE HELP ME DECIDE IS A CARBON BLADE RIGHT FOR THIS JOB :biggrin:


*If you're interested, as a joke so friends could follow some of my adventures, started a IG account for my travel cooking, @ristorantediron. If you're ever in the area of an event, we always welcome a guest chef for a meal!

I wouldnt go carbon from your description. Id grab a quality aebl blade. Sub $200, very good cutter, easily sharpened(even i can do it) mind you a zkramer is a good knife, i bought my mom thé 8inch chef for her bday in april. Now when i visit i dont even have to bring my knives.

I have Z-Kramer knives in both the 52100 Carbon and SG-2 Damascus. The 52100 isn't as reactive as I would have thought for carbon, but I am a home cook so I would listen to Godslayer in this regard. I found the damascus had sort of a finish that created some drag (made it difficult to do horizontal slices thru onion) but helped with less stiction.

The Z-Kramer Essential series seems to get good feedback and may be worth looking into, costs less as well. BTW a "real" Kramer would probably run you thousands of dollars (if you are lucky enough to actually get one).

Get the Kramer essential in stainless, nice profile, sharpens well etc etc

http://www.williamsfoodequipment.ca...981-201.html?gclid=COWlzpiOocUCFQuraQodv6EA1A

Is thé one i bought my mother. $200 cad so $150-$160 usd cheap knife. Great edge. If a model breaks it its replacable as its readily availible. Dont spend thé xtra on damascaus. Damascaus is meant to be looked at and has very little(no) impact on thé knife besides doubling thé pricetag lol. As t said a real kramer is +/- 5k min Ive seen them go for thé privé of a new car lol.

tjangula said:

I have Z-Kramer knives in both the 52100 Carbon and SG-2 Damascus. The 52100 isn't as reactive as I would have thought for carbon, but I am a home cook so I would listen to Godslayer in this regard. I found the damascus had sort of a finish that created some drag (made it difficult to do horizontal slices thru onion) but helped with less stiction.

The Z-Kramer Essential series seems to get good feedback and may be worth looking into, costs less as well. BTW a "real" Kramer would probably run you thousands of dollars (if you are lucky enough to actually get one).

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Thanks for the feedback. Overall, I probably cut more shallots/onions than any other single item (and it being models I'm cooking for, 80% vegetables..), so the "drag" review I've heard mentioned was a thought/concern and what really had me wanting the carbon.

When you say it's not as reactive as you thought, are you saying the rust in high humidity environments shouldn't be a concern, or that it just doesn't require as much maintenance as I would think?

Unfortunately, aware of the real Kramer price, but "expensive" is relative, and it will be far from the most expensive thing in my kitchen...I'm just afraid that once I get my first it'll replace my watch obsession and I'll need a full set so all the handles match in my home drawer, lol!

mille162 said:

Last April I spent the entire month in Bali in an open air kitchen. 85% humidity, no AC, I don't think the towels were ever drier than "damp"!

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End of discussion. Don't do carbon. If this is a possibility, you have your answer. Can you do carbon? Sure. But why would you want to fuss? I think this is entirely up to you, but tropical environs, sans AC, plus carbon = maintenance before and after each use you wouldn't have to do with stainless.

Godslayer said:

http://www.williamsfoodequipment.ca...981-201.html?gclid=COWlzpiOocUCFQuraQodv6EA1A

Is thé one i bought my mother. $200 cad so $150-$160 usd cheap knife. Great edge. If a model breaks it its replacable as its readily availible. Dont spend thé xtra on damascaus. Damascaus is meant to be looked at and has very little(no) impact on thé knife besides doubling thé pricetag lol. As t said a real kramer is +/- 5k min Ive seen them go for thé privé of a new car lol.

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I looked at the essential line, but I really don't like synthetic handles, call it my own mental hangup, but didn't like how it felt in my hand. If I bought this model, what would it cost (approx) for someone decent and recommended by this forum to remove the handle and replace with a nice custom wood piece?

$100-$150 Ive never had a westren rehandled at that point youd be approaching thé cost of thé damascaus line. My issue with that line ls its SG2 similar may be thé same as my takamuras r2 steel which cant do drunken cocunut antics, atleast i dont think it can..... I wont be testing my theory. Albeit a custom Wood handle would add some luster to thé blade

Maybe Jon stainless??

mille162 said:

When you say it's not as reactive as you thought, are you saying the rust in high humidity environments shouldn't be a concern, or that it just doesn't require as much maintenance as I would think?

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I found the 52100 not to react as bad as say the Misono Swedish Steel. I can upload a pic of the 10" ZK 52100 and 300mm Misono Gyuto side-by-side this evening so you can see the difference in the steel after being used. I don't really want to get into the "should" and "probably", as I use mine at home and don't have the humidity variable as well. I wouldn't want to tell you it'd be okay because I can't say for sure.

The consensus seems to be that you should get an SS knife, there are other Damascus options available if you'd entertain the idea of a different design other than the Kramer. I also have a Miyabi 600 MCD in ZDP189 steel, and a Sukenari 270 wa gyuto in the same steel. ZDP189 is very wear resistant so if you get a good edge on it, it should last for awhile.

It may be better to save the high maintenance for the models, not the knives

Just read the part about hacking apart coconuts, the high HRC of ZDP189 and most PM may not be the best steel for this. Most carbons are a bit less unless you're going Honyaki

tjangula said:

Just read the part about hacking apart coconuts, the high HRC of ZDP189 and most PM may not be the best steel for this. Most carbons are a bit less unless you're going Honyaki

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yea, the coconut thing is what broke off the end of the G4, not happy about it and they didn't have permission but they were drunk, it was late and they felt it was a good idea (there was a cleaver right next to it in the bag which would have been a better option BTW)...

I might buy one of each (carbon and stainless) from SLT and take on the next trip (Jamaica for 2 weeks) and just see how each fares...

Thanks for all the input!

Yes coconuts a cleaver or machete. Stainless best for you as long as not abused Gesshin Ginga or the Gesshin Kagaro SRS-15 powder steel. Sharpens up just as well as carbons, but is stainless, also has excellent edge retention.

mille162 said:

...they were drunk, it was late and they felt it was a good idea...

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When it's late and you're drunk, it's ALWAYS a good idea! :cool2:

skiajl6297 said:

End of discussion. Don't do carbon. If this is a possibility, you have your answer. Can you do carbon? Sure. But why would you want to fuss? I think this is entirely up to you, but tropical environs, sans AC, plus carbon = maintenance before and after each use you wouldn't have to do with stainless.

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This...and I am a full fledged carbon junkie!

mille162 said:

yea, the coconut thing is what broke off the end of the G4, not happy about it and they didn't have permission but they were drunk, it was late and they felt it was a good idea (there was a cleaver right next to it in the bag which would have been a better option BTW)...

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Pics or it didn't happen!!!

So you're the guy that chops vegs for the SI swimsuit edition? :angel2:

+1 on the stainless. You should also work a small cutting board into your kit - Epicurean makes some small light ones that are readily transportable. Whenever I take knives on the road I take a couple of these boards.

Not the pics daveb was hoping for, but here are some of the 52100 and Swedish carbon steel I said I'd upload. The Swedish looks darker in person, the 52100 almost seems semi-stainless when I look at them side by side. The one on the bottom (360mm gyuto) is also in Swedish steel but is brand new and unused, it's going to get rehandled.





IIRC a lot of the members who are recommending stainless cook as a profession so it's definitely worth giving some serious thought.

stainless, a little softer steel so it can handle abuse and be maintained with only a steel.
glestain or nenox would fit the bill, get over your aversion to synthetic handle, they are WAY more suited for harsh environments.

Takayuki grand chef is your choice wa handle or pakka wood. Misino ux uses ebony. Both are affordable and aebl 60ish hrc i think the pakka wood may outlast thé ebony but that should fit your bill of stainless and good performer. Another option is inox honyaki is technically stainless if you wanted something fancier albeit i think that blade would be more fragile.


P.S. Nice 360 T, thats a monstre

tjangula, thanks for the pics!

I've been using stainless for a while now, just thought the carbon would give a better edge for longer periods of time. I haven't had anytime using them though so it's mental at this point and I should just go buy the carbon Z-Kramer for home play in the meantime.

I played with the Nenox Corian Gyutou 8" with the Corian handle and as beautiful as it looked, it just didn't feel like anything special in my hands. I'm far from an expert, but holding it was disappointing for some reason, although I can't put it in words other than it felt "thick" to me.

I love the thin stainless handles of the Globals. The Z-Kramer handles are larger than I'd initially like, but still feel comfortable for me after holding for a bit. Texture is also somewhat important and the plastic/resin/synthetic handles maybe more durable and safer for food handling, but I just don't like the way the knife sits in my hand. I cook for pleasure so I have the luxury of focusing more on my enjoyment in the kitchen and the whole process of preparing a meal than the need to do it.

Another option would be to get the ZK Essential (stainless) and then get it rehandled to address your concern of the plastic handle. This would also make it "semi custom" I suppose. Dave Martell of Japanese Knife Sharpening (a vendor on the main page here) does these and is having a sale on the labor cost aspect (you'd still need to pay for some wood or other materials).

I agree about the bulbous feel of the Kramer handles, perhaps you could get the circumference changed with the rehandle too