Talk me out of a Shun Premier Nakiri as my first "higher-end" knife!

I am a ex-professional cook who now cooks daily at home and I'm looking to get a new knife for myself as a birthday present. I currently have a handful of Victorinox Fibrox knives (Chef's knife, utility knife, serrated, and paring) that are my daily workhorses, but I'm looking for a nicer blade thats a bit more specialized.

I do A LOT of vegetable prep at home so I've been looking at a nakiri as it looks like it suits my style the best. I work in a small town in Alabama so I don't really have a place to go and try knives out, but I have amazon prime and the Shun Premier Nakiri looks like the perfect knife for me: I love the shape and size of the knife, and the finish of the knife really appeals to me.

I see that Shun tend to be described here as overpriced for the quality of knife. What nakiri would you guys recommend then to someone who is new to japanese knives? I hone my knives regularly, but I do not have stones to sharpen or a sharpening service available nearby so keep that in mind for a blade that has more maintenance.

I am right-handed and have only western handles. I use a pinch grip if that helps at all either. I like the length of the Shun Premier Nakiri (5.5 inch), as I dislike using huge knives in the home environment. I use my 8" chef's knife for most prep work, but I want something that handles vegetables better. My knife now tends to stick too much, even with a sharp edge and it is a bit annoying and slows me down.

My price range is <$175 so please give me some recommendations for why I shouldn't just go ahead and pull the trigger on the Shun Premier now. Thanks guys and gals!

Welcome Luke, I am a retired chef too. Think you can do better than a Shun. I would think a quality 8" or 210mm chef knife much more versatile than a Nikiri. Blades I reach for the most these days are Sugimoto CM4030 cleaver. Light comfortable great for chopping up all kinds of things and a 217mm chef knife.

The Shun Nakiri does not suck. I had the opportunity to use one during a Shun product demo and was expecting it to be clunky, fat, unbalanced. Was pleasantly surprised that I liked it. (But only a little)

That said for the same coin you can no doubt do better. Japanese Knife Imports has a few offerings within your price range. The Uraku is solid as is the Zakuri. If you reach a little deeper the Kocki has a great reputation.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-14/kitchen-knives-by-type/nakiri.html

There is a new knife questionnaire at the top of the forum that when filled out can produce recommendations (usually) tailored for your requirements.

I used to have a deer lease between Brewton and Andulusia. Little towns in Alabama can be great.

Edit: And agree with Keith that a 210 Gyuto (Chef Knife) would be a lot more versatile in the kitchen if that's something you're open to.

The Shun Premier series isn't my favorite, but, as Dave said, it isn't a bad knife. You could spend less and get a Gesshin Uraku with better steel that will hold an edge longer, but it wouldn't look as nice as the Shun.

As long as you are ordering it from Amazon, find a little more in your budget and get a Norton combination waterstone in 1000/4000 grit. You will need it to maintain your new Shun, as you don't want to let a honing rod anywhere near it.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00067ZSM2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Welcome to KKF, by the way.

Rick

What Dave said. The Uraku & Zakuri are both good choices with the Zakuri getting the nod from me.

The op has a 8" chefs knife to begin with , he is asking for a nakiri .
Shuns are not as bad as people make them
sound to be , however they are overpriced IMO and you can do lot better with same money . If you are in US give Jon from JKI a call , he will recommend the best blade you need for the moment

Considering a vendor from this site has a beast of a Yoshikane Hammered Nakiri priced in the same ballpark as the Shun for twice the knife....I would not buy it if I were you.

There are plenty of superb alternatives in the same budget.

MrOli said:

Considering a vendor from this site has a beast of a Yoshikane Hammered Nakiri priced in the same ballpark as the Shun for twice the knife....I would not buy it if I were you.

There are plenty of superb alternatives in the same budget.

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You are spot on for the yoshikane from epic edge , great knives

Or this if you want a (small) Western handle:

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=91017

The powdered metal stainless is excellent.

Plenty of alternatives out there.

The Shun premier line is pretty nice. I have the Honesuki with Vg-Max steel and really enjoy using it. That being said, $160 for a nakiri with Vg-10 is a bit much. I paid $88 for mine and think $160 is a bit steep.

If you really like the Shun and don't mind branching out a little from your initial pick, you should consider the 8" blue kiritsuke. I bought one for my dad a month ago for $142. I own the knife, and it's a dream to use daily. However, if you are okay with the little extra work maintaining the VG-10 from Shun, then by all means go with your first pick.

Best of luck.

Withing your price range you could get Watanabe's 180mm nakiri http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm .
If you are ok spending a bit more, you can ask him to change the plastic ferrule for a horn one.

I want to tell you to take that money and use it to replace your fibrox chefs knife and make your whole day easier.

Fibrox rocks. They were the first real knives I bought, and some still have a place in my kitchen. They're indestructible and can take a decent edge. Sure, they're not hand forged but for most kitchens, or as an entry point to 'proper' sharp knives people could do a lot worse.

I use a fibrox bread knife all the time and have an 8' Chefs for my wife. In her world knives are multi tools that cut everything, including bones, boxes and sometimes small branches. To be fair after all that I can take the fibrox to the stones and bring it back to shaving in 10 minutes. They're solid.

I would recommend this knife if you can handle carbon steel: Anryu Hammered Blue #2 Nakiri. It has a core steel of reactive Blue/Aogami #2 steel with a non-reactive stainless cladding on top. Very well made knife, excellent grind, very nice handle and good heat treatment means it will take a scary sharp edge. I have used this knife for a while, as well as the range's Santoku and 240 mm gyuto and are all excellent performing knives. You don't have to be scared by the carbon steel, just whipe it dry after using and store it dry. The price is fairly within your range as well!

keithsaltydog said:

Welcome Luke, I am a retired chef too. Think you can do better than a Shun. I would think a quality 8" or 210mm chef knife much more versatile than a Nikiri. Blades I reach for the most these days are Sugimoto CM4030 cleaver. Light comfortable great for chopping up all kinds of things and a 217mm chef knife.

Click to expand...

Don't know if I'm "retired", just ended up changing career fields but still have a big love for working in my kitchen! I have a feeling you are correct about getting a Shun, I am pretty set on getting a nakiri though. I really love my victorinox fibrox (takes a good edge and I don't have to worry too much about beating them up), so I'd rather expand my collection right now instead of replace if possible. I really like how flat the blade on a nakiri is. I think it would compliment my knife technique pretty well especially with julienne cuts and cutting the pithe out of peppers (I do both almost daily).

daveb said:

... for the same coin you can no doubt do better. Japanese Knife Imports has a few offerings within your price range. The Uraku is solid as is the Zakuri. If you reach a little deeper the Kocki has a great reputation.

There is a new knife questionnaire at the top of the forum that when filled out can produce recommendations (usually) tailored for your requirements.

I used to have a deer lease between Brewton and Andulusia. Little towns in Alabama can be great.

Edit: And agree with Keith that a 210 Gyuto (Chef Knife) would be a lot more versatile in the kitchen if that's something you're open to.

Click to expand...

I'll look at those knives on JKI, but the site seems to be down at the moment (may just be on my end!). This may be a newbie question, but what exactly do I do with the questionnaire when I fill it out? Paste it in this thread?

I've been through Brewton on work and it is a great little town!

Pensacola Tiger said:

The Shun Premier series isn't my favorite, but, as Dave said, it isn't a bad knife. You could spend less and get a Gesshin Uraku with better steel that will hold an edge longer, but it wouldn't look as nice as the Shun.

As long as you are ordering it from Amazon, find a little more in your budget and get a Norton combination waterstone in 1000/4000 grit. You will need it to maintain your new Shun, as you don't want to let a honing rod anywhere near it.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00067ZSM2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Welcome to KKF, by the way.

Rick

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Hmm that may definitely be worth it. Would the combination waterstone be sufficient for maintenance on these knives? And thanks for the welcome, I am already learning a ton here!

MrOli said:

Considering a vendor from this site has a beast of a Yoshikane Hammered Nakiri priced in the same ballpark as the Shun for twice the knife....I would not buy it if I were you.

There are plenty of superb alternatives in the same budget.

Click to expand...

Is that this one: http://epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=85670 ?

It looks very nice, what exactly makes it twice the knife? I'm still a bit new to the scene here so sorry if that is a very vague question!

wrobelan said:

The Shun premier line is pretty nice. I have the Honesuki with Vg-Max steel and really enjoy using it. That being said, $160 for a nakiri with Vg-10 is a bit much. I paid $88 for mine and think $160 is a bit steep.

If you really like the Shun and don't mind branching out a little from your initial pick, you should consider the 8" blue kiritsuke. I bought one for my dad a month ago for $142. I own the knife, and it's a dream to use daily. However, if you are okay with the little extra work maintaining the VG-10 from Shun, then by all means go with your first pick.

Best of luck.

Click to expand...

I have been looking at a honesuki as my next knife after this, as I have tried a friends before to break down a couple chickens and really liked the stiffness and geometry of it compared to the boning knives I've used at where I worked. Where are you buying your Shuns from out of curiosity?

Marcelo Amaral said:

Withing your price range you could get Watanabe's 180mm nakiri http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm .
If you are ok spending a bit more, you can ask him to change the plastic ferrule for a horn one.

Click to expand...

spoiledbroth said:

I want to tell you to take that money and use it to replace your fibrox chefs knife and make your whole day easier.

Click to expand...

My fibrox really cause me no issues at all except when making my initial cuts to dice onions and a few other veggies, hence why I want this nakiri. With regular honing and occasional sharpening they have all stayed near-razor sharp and I love them! Plus no need to seat if you do hit a bone or something since they are so affordable to replace in a worse-case scenario.

Butters said:

Fibrox rocks. They were the first real knives I bought, and some still have a place in my kitchen. They're indestructible and can take a decent edge. Sure, they're not hand forged but for most kitchens, or as an entry point to 'proper' sharp knives people could do a lot worse.

I use a fibrox bread knife all the time and have an 8' Chefs for my wife. In her world knives are multi tools that cut everything, including bones, boxes and sometimes small branches. To be fair after all that I can take the fibrox to the stones and bring it back to shaving in 10 minutes. They're solid.

Click to expand...

+1 They are certainly not high end, but I don't think they try to be. One day I'll probably upgrade mine, but I'd rather spend my limited budget on something a little more specialized.

MDT89 said:

I would recommend this knife if you can handle carbon steel: Anryu Hammered Blue #2 Nakiri. It has a core steel of reactive Blue/Aogami #2 steel with a non-reactive stainless cladding on top. Very well made knife, excellent grind, very nice handle and good heat treatment means it will take a scary sharp edge. I have used this knife for a while, as well as the range's Santoku and 240 mm gyuto and are all excellent performing knives. You don't have to be scared by the carbon steel, just whipe it dry after using and store it dry. The price is fairly within your range as well!

Click to expand...

This looks like a fantastic option as well. How would it compare to the Yoshikane Hammered Nakiri mentioned above?

The Anryu Blue #2 gyuto seems to get stellar user feedback from what I've read online. I would expect the nakiri to perform well too. I'm laying off the knife buying at the moment as I went a bit crazy this last month, but I do plan on trying an Anryu someday.

lukehod said:

Would the combination waterstone be sufficient for maintenance on these knives?

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Yes, they would. At some point you may want to add a coarse stone for repairs, but a 1000/4000 combination (or two single grit stones in that range) are perfectly suitable for maintaining any knives you have or may get. I recommended the Norton combination stone considering cost and that it is also available from Amazon Prime. There are many other suitable stones available, but they either cost more, or involve high shipping costs unless you spend a particular amount to get free shipping. If you want to spend more, say so and you'll get a lot of recommendations.

i'm loving the Nakiri..i am using a shallow cleaver from Taiwan almost daily and i am seriously married to the shape.

good luck with the search.

and i love Fibrox. just used one this weekend at july 4th bbq. super sharp, and the handle is very ergonomic and grippy. about as sexy as plain white sliced bread, but it is a very effective chef's knife.

The Yoshikane will outpeform the Shun in cutting power and food release, it is worth noting the steel is semi stainless clad with stainless. I am biased of course but Yoshilanes are fine knives present in the collections of many here.

MadDurrr said:

The Anryu Blue #2 gyuto seems to get stellar user feedback from what I've read online. I would expect the nakiri to perform well too. I'm laying off the knife buying at the moment as I went a bit crazy this last month, but I do plan on trying an Anryu someday.

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Anything sold on the TOGO site is going to have stellar user feedback - from the folks on the TOGO site. It may well be a fine knife but looking for objective feedback there is like asking the waitress "How's the pie?" And TOGO is not unique in that regard, just the only vendor site that purports to be a forum.

And nothing suggested thus far, that's within your stated budget, will touch the Uraku. If you're willing to reach a little deeper the Watanabe is among my favorite Nakiri. This is what mine looks like.

I know CKTG is not a very well appreciated site here, though the plethora of references to JKI and JCK on this site means that this forum actually pretty much does the same. That being said, I am from the Netherlands and purchase most of my knives from japansemessen.nl, a Dutch JK importer that has a very nice collection of JKs and attributes as well. I've used the CKTG forum and this forum to help me in my purchase decision and lately decided it was my time to put my 2 cents in.

On the subject then, I have not used the Joshikane but I actually own a Anryu Nakiri and recommend it from personal experience. The knife has a great grind, stiff and high performance, and although not being a true laser it actually is really thin behind the edge. It is the only Nakiri that I personally own, but you might also want to look at Fujiwara Nashiji Nakiri (Shirogami #1 with stainless clad) and one of the stainless Masakage Nakiris (Vg-10/damascus, really nice grind) if you like knives with a little bit more character. However, they are on the top end of your price range.

MDT89 said:

I know CKTG is not a very well appreciated site here, though the plethora of references to JKI and JCK on this site means that this forum actually pretty much does the same.
.

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Well, seeing as how JCK is NOT a vendor here, your statement does not hold true! WE DO NOT SHILL HERE.
We recommend vendors because of our personal experiences with them, not because we are paid to do so.
And FYI, us mods do not get paid to do what we do. This is a community, not a ******* marketplace. Thank you.

Ruso said:

To be honest yes you do. Not as much as TOGO, I mean TOGO forum exists only for one reason, so its hard to beat.

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Shill=an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.

Not here...though there are a bunch of enthusiastic customers...me included...shill is definitely an appropriate term for togo...funny that they call it a forum...more a place of worship (false idols)

I think I am misinterpreted here, I never meant that this site or any of the mods are vending knives here or anything. However, when a lot of people talk about knives that can be bought at the same site (for instance JKI), it tends to create a loop. More people talk about them, recommend them and people buy them. This reinforces the position of some vendors on the forum, but there's nothing wrong with that. On the CKTG forum, I don't believe they intend to portray themselves as anything else than a tool to review their knives and recommend them to people who want any of the TOGO knives. Also, nothing wrong with that IMO.
Considering the heated reactions my last post received, I believe this discussion has occured more than once on this forum and I will leave it be. Again, no harm or foul intended towards the forum or any of the mods. As for the knife, I am speaking from my own experience with the Anryu Nakiri, and wanted to express my thoughs and think it would be a knife to consider within the price range.

daveb said:

And nothing suggested thus far, that's within your stated budget, will touch the Uraku. If you're willing to reach a little deeper the Watanabe is among my favorite Nakiri. This is what mine looks like.

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Like

Glad someone said it. I started with a Shun Premier Nakiri. I enjoyed slicing with it so much that I started down the road to Jknife addiction.

That said, however, nothing I own cuts better than my Watanabe nakiri. If I had to do it over again, and on a tight budget, I would shop for a used Watanabe before compromising.

I've had knives that I thought were impressively sharp, then bought something radically sharper that redefined my view of such... after trying every superlative I've had the chance to own or use, the Watanabe nakiri ranks as my favorite.

As far as criticism of Shun, I have a boning knife that is very chippy. The VG10 edge of my Nakiri and chef knife, in my hands, does not hold up as well as some of my carbon core knives. Sharpening the Shun is not as easy for me either. That is more personal preference though.

So I feel like I have narrowed my choices down to the Yoshikane Hammered Nakiri, the Watanabe Nakiri, or the Anryu Blue #2. I am leaning most towards the Yoshikane just because I am a sucker for a hammered finish, it has the "D" shaped handle, and it is currently in stock (unlike the Anryu Blue #2).

Is there any drastic difference in difficulty of maintenance between the three of these knives? I don't have any stones yet, but I may have to get some soon it seems.

What is the ordering process like for the Watanabe? How much would shipping be to the US and how long does it take to get here? Is it really worth bumping my budget up to get the Watanabe over the Yoshikane?


Thanks so much for all the help everyone! I have a lot to learn about knives still, but I think I'm in the right place to do it.:biggrin:

The Yoshi is stainless clad SKD, so very little concern about reactivity. Yoshi does a great job with SKD and it sharpens like I know how. The Watanabe Pro is also stainless clad, I think the core is white steel. I picked up mine used but I understand they are easily ordered off Watanabe's website, there is nominal shipping cost and it's about a three week delay.

If you like the hammered finish it's the Yoshi or JKI Gobei(sp?). I don't care for that finish and so don't have one.

Can't offer anything re the Anryu.

Another +1 on the Watanabe. Mine is with Dave M. right now for handle upgrade.

Buying from Watanabe was easy and painless. I don't recall the details of shipping cost and time to get here, which means it was not memorable (in a good way).