Quantcast
White and Blue paper steels. pros and cons. - Page 3
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32

Thread: White and Blue paper steels. pros and cons.

  1. #21
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    4,084
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Davis View Post
    If that was in the states that wouldnt be too bad, $2 per pound, but with shipping it would be closer to $5 per pound...still a bit pricey.
    $5/LB is comparable to most steels you can get in US.


    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  2. #22
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    4,084
    From the little I know on the subject, I think the only advantage of Hitachi paper steels is that they can be adopted fairly easily to traditional forging and heat treating methods used by Japanese makers. Other than that, (well, forgot to mention hamon) I see no real advantage using White steel as it offers not much of edge retention. For home cook it might be OK, but for pros, it might be a handicap, unless you are prepared to sharpen your knives after every shift as many Japanese cooks do. For hamon, I would use W2, but if I were to make a performance knife, I would look for more complex carbon steels.

    M


    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    sachem allison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    3,931
    Quote Originally Posted by HHH Knives View Post
    Does anyone know a good supplier for this steel in the USA or would recommend a reliable source outside the states? Would love to get a few pounds of each to play with!
    Hey, Randy

    Talk to this guy he is in charge of answering cutlery steel questions at Hitachi metals America. hope it helps. son

    Ed Shimohira
    Hitachi Metals America, Ltd.
    2 Manhattanville Rd., Ste 301
    Purchase, NY 10577-2103

    USA
    (914) 694-9200 ext. 4814 Phone
    (914) 694-9279 Fax

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    1,297
    What would you consider a more complex carbon steel? To my mind, 52100 or O1 are really no more complex than W2. Would you look at something like CPM 3V?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    From the little I know on the subject, I think the only advantage of Hitachi paper steels is that they can be adopted fairly easily to traditional forging and heat treating methods used by Japanese makers. Other than that, (well, forgot to mention hamon) I see no real advantage using White steel as it offers not much of edge retention. For home cook it might be OK, but for pros, it might be a handicap, unless you are prepared to sharpen your knives after every shift as many Japanese cooks do. For hamon, I would use W2, but if I were to make a performance knife, I would look for more complex carbon steels.

    M

  5. #25
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    4,084
    Hmm... I should have said better balanced carbon steels instead. Steels that have alloys in them to give you better edge retention and other benefits.

    M


    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bangor Maine
    Posts
    338
    Randy,

    Bubba San over on knife dogs gave me a link to purchase some of the paper steels from germany and the price was about the same as many stainless steels after shipping was included. I lost the link in a computer change but I am sure he still has it.

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    1,297
    The Aogami Super seems to fit that bill, but I would worry about it being rather finicky in heat treat because of the high carbon content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    Hmm... I should have said better balanced carbon steels instead. Steels that have alloys in them to give you better edge retention and other benefits.

    M

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tonasket, WA
    Posts
    27
    Here's the link to buy Blue, White, and layered paper steels from Germany. The piece linked to here appears to be Blue #2 by alloy. For a piece sized 4.5 x 30 x 500 mm, they want 36.90 Euro. Shipping would be 29 Euro. Total rough cost for the one bar of steel, weighing approximately 1.17 lbs: 65.90 Euro. That converts to about $93.00 U.S. Too rich for my blood.

    Interesting site, though. They have Tamahagane as well. Also very expensive.

    http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/prod...el-Ao-Gami.htm

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tonasket, WA
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Tsourkan View Post
    From the little I know on the subject, I think the only advantage of Hitachi paper steels is that they can be adopted fairly easily to traditional forging and heat treating methods used by Japanese makers. Other than that, (well, forgot to mention hamon) I see no real advantage using White steel as it offers not much of edge retention. For home cook it might be OK, but for pros, it might be a handicap, unless you are prepared to sharpen your knives after every shift as many Japanese cooks do. For hamon, I would use W2, but if I were to make a performance knife, I would look for more complex carbon steels.

    M
    W2 will make a very good performance knife. It has good fine edge stability at pretty high RC. The bit of added vanadium makes a noticeable improvement in edge retention over W1, 1095.

    In other words, you can make a thin, hard blade out of it and not have to worry as much about major or minor edge chipping as you would with many other steels. Some of what we think of as "dulling" is actually small edge chipping.

    As far as White's potential for hamon, I see that as a reason to experiment with it on it's own merit. I don't like to think I put aesthetics over performance, but once you get into chasing the elusive hamon knife after knife, you want to seek out the materials and techniques that will aid you in achieving the ultimate result. I guess it's a type of art that's about the beauty and fickleness of grain patterns in steel. Not necessarily the right thing for every person or knife.

  10. #30

    HHH Knives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,805
    Great info. Thanks guys. I now have the ability to experiment and HT some new steels. Looking through this posts and it seems one of the first I should look into is W2. would be a good one to start with.

    On a side note.. I have a question for you guys.

    What stainless or semi stainless do you prefer in the kitchen?? and why..

    I want to start with some mono stainless or semi stainless steels to tune in my HT process and choosing a "standard" HHH steel type that I like to work with and will do the JOB. etc. So this is my next step.. Im thinking we may do some cladding and stainless damascus at some point in the near future..

    Inspired by God, Forged by Fire, Tempered by Water, Grounded by Earth, Guided by the spirit.. Randy Haas

    HHH Custom Knives T Shirts.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts