Kato....or Carter

So, I've been after a Kato for a while, and have now scavenged together the cash. But, availability is limited and a Carter is only a few hundred bucks more. There's still a few problems with availability but I'm hoping to ask people here who've owned both what they think?

Have you had a knife from either maker? What did you prefer, and why?

If you had your choice again what would you do?

I like solid knives and have a Watanabe and Heiji, and I also like thinner knives too, and have a Wakui which is beautifully thin behind the edge with great distal taper, as well as a thin Sab carbon slicer. This next knife won't be the 'one' to do it all, so don't worry. In time I'll likely get both, but on a budget I'd like advice on what to get first.

Thanks

Both are nice knives, good performers certainly, but why not consider a custom from one of the many bladesmiths on the forum? I've has a Kato and several off-the-shelf Carters, but nothing compares to a true custom knife, especially since you seem to have your preferences "dialed in".

Care to name names? I've got a vague idea of what I like, but only through the limited experience of what I've used.

Kato: thick edge , major convex grind. Carter: usually thin and laser esque.all depends what you want. I'd say Kato all the way

I don't have personal experience with Kato, but have with Carters. I'd say the Carters are fairly thin and always have heard that Kato is thicker (perhaps that's just the "workhorse" ones). Since you're okay with both styles and don't really indicate use preference, I think you could flip a coin to decide as you plan to get both anyways. One thing I find with the laser-ish knives is that they aren't as blade heavy, so that can have it's pros and cons.

What size knife?

I would go Kato for a 240 gyuto and Carter for everything else.

Butters said:

Care to name names? I've got a vague idea of what I like, but only through the limited experience of what I've used.

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Sorry, I read too much into your post and thought that you had a good idea of what geometry and profile you preferred.

As you are still gaining experience, I'd say to go with a Kato - the workhorse version from Maksim - since you said you have a Watanabe and a Heiji. Carter's current knives tend to the anorexic side, unlike his older knives, and consequently don't have the convexity that a heftier blade allows. I think you'll find a Kato interesting.

Rick

I have one Kato (nakari) and a pile of Carters dating back from when he was still in Japan. I may not have enough experience with Kato's but I prefer my Carters. On the other hand, I never paid any where near the prices he is asking these days.

I don't have any experience with either, but I feel a kato workhorse is a really unique knife, you can't really find any other with a profile like it.

Both makers make knives that cut well. I use my Kato a lot and use my Carter sparingly, but that's mostly due to handle comfort, because the Carter blade is really excellent. Carter wedges a little more because it's a kurouchi version with a shinogi, but both have very thin edges and both have very thin tips.

Im saving for Kato.

I like Chuckles suggestion: if it's a gyuto then pick the Kato, if anything else try a Carter.

Back the truck up. You've got to own a Shig before you own a Kato, I think it's a rule somewhere...

daveb said:

Back the truck up. You've got to own a Shig before you own a Kato, I think it's a rule somewhere...

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Seems kinda true, although of course there's no connection between them. Very different knives.

Taking it further, before any Shig, he should make sure he's already owned a Shun or Global and was initially ecstatic, and then grew disenchanted with them.

I'm thinking specifically of a 210 Kato, or 200ish Carter. I'd rather a 240 on both counts but the 210 is all that's available from Kato and all I can afford from Carter.. I like the size anyway and use 210s a lot at home so it's no biggie.

I've also been looking at Hide - thoughts? They haven't answered my emails so that might be put in the too hard basket.

Dave & Ger: I'd like to try a shig too. Maybe send me one of yours

Butters said:

Dave & Ger: I'd like to try a shig too. Maybe send me one of yours

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Nice try, but I only have 1 Shig, a usuba. I had a 240 gyuto before but it was just too thin and light for me. (Weight with handle, I remember, was 200g.)

Kato and Carter make very different knives witgh different profiles, geometries and steels. Kato is heavy duty workhrose that is not that great for tall har vegetables, Carter is thinner, but contrary to Kato every knife has different thickness and profile. Carter is white #1 and edge holding is thus shorter (even though I think he does terrific job with HT).

If you are really looking at price segment of some $700 - $800, than you have two options:
1) get a hight quality knife (Like Kato, Shig, all that cool stuff from JKI) - you will get top performance as the knifes that guys like Maxim or Jon sell have been approved by them and often developed (or adjusted) to their specifications
2) get a custom and you may get the same performace for more cash, but in a package that was made for you. I said 'may' as depending on the maker and your requirements you may or may not get what you expect. I would go that route if (a) you have experiencce with knives from given maker, and/or (b) you have a lot of experience with knives yourself and know really well what you want and which maker is able to make knife to your specifications.

Of the forum custom makers Tilman Leder seems very popular. Any opinions here?

Butters, Every one of the knives you have mentioned are in the top echelon of kitchen cutlery. But you already know that. I've handles hundreds of knives and have owned lots too. Each knife has its own character, even among knives form the same smith. As you know, there's no single holy grail knife that will be ideal for all tasks. Gyutos come close for me though.

I'm not trying to be snarky but remember, one mans junk is another mans treasure. You may not like ketcup with your scrambled eggs, I do. I prefer tubulars to clinchers too.

Clinchers here.. And yes, gyuto's too. I'm just trying to get info on them before pulling the trigger.

There's some good knowledge here and whilst liking a particular knife is often subjective I figured I may as well try and leverage that knowledge before making a decision.

I have three Katos and I love them all.

Would very much like to try a Carter some time, but I think his high-end knives are a bit pricey. Then again, I have no right to call them pricey with no knowledge of how they perform.

If you are interested I found a video of Salty doing a comparison between grinds of two Carters.
[video=youtube;FXviazyA0yg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXviazyA0yg[/video]

as much as I like my Kato (it's my literal fave) I'd take a ton of 240s over the same knife in 210.

It's not about the 210 Kato being a worse knife (I wouldnt know, I can only assume it's basically the same), it's just that I way prefer 240 to 210 personally.

That thought does concern me actually. I have a few 210s and use them a lot as I generally cook simply, and then only for two, but I love busting out a 240 when I've got chop heavy dishes to prep.

I've been looking for a Kato 240 for ages and have always been too slow. But I can get a 210 right now. It's a compromise.

For the money you're talking about, you should get exactly what you want. It's not like you're suffering without knives, just be patient

Ah, patience. I've heard of that..

Butters said:

Ah, patience. I've heard of that..

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I've been looking for patience for ages, but it's never in stock.

Butters said:

That thought does concern me actually. I have a few 210s and use them a lot as I generally cook simply, and then only for two, but I love busting out a 240 when I've got chop heavy dishes to prep.

I've been looking for a Kato 240 for ages and have always been too slow. But I can get a 210 right now. It's a compromise.

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For what it's worth, I love my Kato 210mm. It's the second most used knife I have. Right behind my Kato 240mm....

I think you should try and get the 210. It's a mighty big 210 and you might feel that it's perfect. I don't think you would have any problems getting rid of it if you don't end up liking it. And don't hold your breath on getting a 240mm. They get snagged so fast it's crazy.

Hehehe explained another way... if exactly what you want is in stock, you'll wish you had cash on hand.