Stone Stuff

Hey Everyone,

I've never posted a review about a stone before but thought if there was every something I wanted to write about it was this. In talking with Cris a bit it came up that he had a few stones that were some sort of american natural stone that was very hard, splash and go, didn't really dish at all and worked great on his W2 steel with RHC 64-65. Needless to say this sounded intriguing, he had a broken one that was offered on loan to me for a bit.

I've been using the stone now for a few weeks and honestly really like it yet at the same time I'm a bit confused by it. The stone has some odd properties to me in that it's super hard, splash and go, very heavy, doesn't seem to dish at all, cuts fairly fast, leaves a finishing edge and yet can remove a ton of metal if needed yet it something like a 2-4k stone. I have never ventured into the world of Japanese Naturals because the cost was always prohibitive so maybe this fits in line with those but for someone quite used to synthetics this was kinda new to me but enough about the stone itself, how does it cut and what kinda edge does it leave?

The stone cuts fairly fast, it's interesting in that I've tested it out now with FKM-8, White #2, R2, Shigefusa Steel, Blue #2 and some random junk stainless and it cut all of them well. It seemed to generate a burr quickly yet the burr was relatively small and easy to flip. I used the knife quite a bit on my Takamura R2 which was suffering from a lot of micro-chipping of the OOTB edge. The stone took out all the micro chips without a problem using only light pressure and small stropping strokes. Didn't bother using any harder pressure or even my regular sharpening technique with this thing, just edge trailing strops back and forth. Was able to flip the bur after maybe 2-3 strokes per side and the burr was abraded very quickly on some felt and balsa. It took the Takamura's edge (trouble with tomato skin and a bit chipped) back to super sharp (hair popping sharp and no issues with tomato) and took out the chips. I haven't since gone to a lower stone since this one has been able to maintain everything I've tried it on aka didn't have any really bad shape knives.

Regarding how this thing matches up to some other stones, well I've used The Suehiro Rika as well as some Gesshin stuff (Gesshin 6000, 4000 and 8000) as finishers/had knives with these edges. I vastly prefer this thing over the Rika which I never really got along with, I was never really able to get the kinda edge I wanted off the Rika, edge always seemed a bit too smooth or polished for me and I didn't like the stone feel, wanted something harder. In terms of the Gesshin, I love the Gesshin 4000 edge and that is still my favorite finishing edge BUT that stone is $110+ or something and for comparison this thing is $50. For $50 this stone performs very very well, again, I would say the gesshin 4000 edge is more to my liking (toothy and just seems to cut so well) and that stone in general was/is highly impressive but for the price I would just buy one of Cris's. The Gesshin 6000 and 8000 didn't leave enough tooth for my liking, wasn't a huge fan of these. They were nice stones but again just not my preferences.

The stone is something fairly different from most of the synthetics you see and honestly, I really enjoyed using it. Would I take it over something like a Gesshin 4000? Well no if they were both free but if I'm footing the bill on this, Cris's stone win's on value without a doubt.

Anyhow, just wanted to post this up because it was definitely a new experience for me and something I wanted to share. Thanks everyone and sorry for any spelling or grammatical errors, I'm posting at 4:41am because why not?!

Edit: Why not? I can think of a couple reasons Snake. I spent a whole pot of coffee "cleaning" here. :spankarse: Ha!

Your post really says to me that with such low dishing, and the stone came opened up as in ready to work, that it could be a one piece starter stone for any J-knife regardless of current steel hardness. Do we have a new splash and go one-stop stone for J-knives? Even super-hard ones?

Real quick disclaimer guys! I believe this stone is Chinese, not American! I think when we were discussing them in PM's, there was some confusion with my Apache Red and Apache Strata stones I have, as they are both American naturals.

Sorry for any confusion! As was said, I don't retail these stones so I'm hoping posting to clear up any confusion is acceptable!

Woops, yeh sorry I got confused between this stone and the Apache stuff. The stone itself isn't labelled or marked and we were discussing a few stones at the time so yes, my mistake.

Regarding super hard knives, I've used it on a Takamura R2 which is around 63-64 and a Shig which I believe is fairly hard as well. No problem with either so I doubt hardness would be an issue. Regarding a one stop stone, not sure about that, I didn't need any major work or had to sharpen especially dull edges. My knives were already in decent shape so this worked as sort of a medium grit and finisher all in one.

CrisAnderson27 said:

Real quick disclaimer guys! I believe this stone is Chinese, not American! I think when we were discussing them in PM's, there was some confusion with my Apache Red and Apache Strata stones I have, as they are both American naturals.

Sorry for any confusion!... As was said, I don't retail these stones so I'm hoping posting to clear up any confusion is acceptable!

Click to expand...

If you're not interested in retailing them would you share your opinion of them perhaps compared to your stones and where both can be found?

Honestly, I don't think I'm allowed to touch on the retail aspects of the stones at all. My status on this site is sort of weird...as I'm not a vendor and not a hobbyist craftsman...so it's difficult to know what is acceptable to post.

Edit: Back the truck up.

The status is not weird at all. You were a vendor. Now you're not.

You're currently a very informative, well respected member who happens to make some nice knives. But do not address your retail business here, even obliquely. Talk about rocks, even and especially North American rocks. Discuss properties, strengths and weaknesses etc. But you're not promoting them, selling them or discussing customer relations here. Thanks.

LOVE that gesshin 4k also. what is this american natural stone you speak of, and where can i get it. I am intrigued.

The American Naturals are sold over at http://www.naturalhones.com/. Yes, they're in Arizona, but I don't know the guy beyond getting my stones from him...and I'm in no way affiliated with him nor do I receive anything for mentioning him.

Now that that's cleared up...

They're great stones for razors...the Apache Strata (his highest level finisher) is somewhere between 10k and 14k...and does a great job of giving a super comfortable, HHT5 edge for shaving. It sucks on kitchen knives...at least ultra hard kitchen knives which are the only type I have any experience with. The Apache Red is rated from 7k-10k...and is a bit better for kitchen knives in my opinion...but is still too high a level of polish for me. I use it as a pre-finisher on my razors.

umm, these stones are not 50 dollars.

Removed to stay on topic.

-Cris

My mistake, there are no more stones available for 50! there are a few stones that sold for around 50.

SolidSnake03 said:

Hey Everyone,

I've never posted a review about a stone before but thought if there was every something I wanted to write about ............ Thanks everyone and sorry for any spelling or grammatical errors, I'm posting at 4:41am because why not?!

Edit: Why not? I can think of a couple reasons Snake. I spent a whole pot of coffee "cleaning" here. :spankarse: Ha!

Click to expand...

Yellow/red emoticon action figures added by daveb.

So, do we have an urban internet legend about a superstone from Krypton [thus not American but remember Canada is in North America too] that doesn't dish, costs less than a tank of gas, can or cannot be sold, or what? I really like S.Snake's posts because he shares his inner Ninja but this one has me interested enough to ask whether I should just get the Men in Black to use the "gun thingy" on me or this stone exists. ??

goatgolfer said:

Yellow/red emoticon action figures added by daveb.

So, do we have an urban internet legend about a superstone from Krypton [thus not American but remember Canada is in North America too] that doesn't dish, costs less than a tank of gas, can or cannot be sold, or what? I really like S.Snake's posts because he shares his inner Ninja but this one has me interested enough to ask whether I should just get the Men in Black to use the "gun thingy" on me or this stone exists. ??

Click to expand...

All names have been changed to protect the innocent!

Honestly my friend, I cannot talk about any retail aspects of this stone. I had answered your questions previously...but if you'd like to know any more about it please ask specific questions and I or Solid Snake will do our best to reply. It really is a cool stone. I sharpened a Yoshisomethingorother suji on it today...which is some form of stainless (I know nothing of stainless Japanese knives, honestly...and very, very little of Japanese carbon knives), and it sharpened even more easily than carbon stuff I've dealt with. Is the stone perfect? No...but I don't think any one stone is. That said, I do use it as my only kitchen knife stone without any issues whatsoever.

Are there pictures of this stone? A video showing it sharpening said knives? Pictures of the finish it leaves? Videos showing cutting tests?

brooksie967 said:

Are there pictures of this stone? A video showing it sharpening said knives? Pictures of the finish it leaves? Videos showing cutting tests?

Click to expand...

There are some videos, but I can't post them. Mostly they just reiterate what's been said here by Solidsnake anyhow. Pressure is everything in how the stones cut, and they cut surprisingly well with zero dishing. I've sharpened probably 20 knives and half a dozen razors on the one I keep here for myself, and it's still dead flat. I keep it clean (though I haven't noticed any glazing or swarf build up in the 'pores' either...maybe SolidSnake can add to that?) with a chunk of King 1k I use for slurry when setting bevels on razors.

Sounds like snake oil.

Snake oil generally implies that a person is trying to slip something past another person. That would be impossible here as there is nothing to be slipped past.

Honestly though...the only reason this thread even happened is because I wanted an unbiased opinion on the things and SolidSnake asked to try one out, so I sent him a broken one to give me some feedback. His post is the result. There was no benefit to me in him posting it (I don't retail them)...as a matter of fact he accidentally caused a bunch of drama...which you can see with all of the edits lol. That's all hashed out now, and it was probably better that it happened.

Anyway, you can take his word for what it is or not. I think he just felt like sharing something he thought was cool...no more, no less.

Whats the something? There isn't anything here other than a post about something, out of the dirt that is apparently so secret it must have been mined by the free masons.

How about pictures of the finish it leaves after different parts of a progression?

brooksie967 said:

How about pictures of the finish it leaves after different parts of a progression?

Click to expand...

What kind of progression? It's the only stone I use, from bevel cutting (meaning a 'never been sharpened' edge...with NO bevel), to final polish.

But.



This is the edge of a 65HRC AISI W2 tool steel kitchen knife at 500x. The only stone that touched it is this natural stone. No slurry, just clean water. These stones do not make their own slurry, at least not enough to be detectable. The edge it leaves, in use...is toothy enough to bite into loosely folded glossy newsprint, but still sharp enough to cleanly slice a loosely folded piece of tissue paper. The benefit for me is a one stone solution from start to finish on a knife. I keep one next to my kitchen sink, and when I'm done using a knife I splash some water on it, drag the knife lightly across it edge trailing a couple times, wipe it, and put it away.

As SolidSnake said...I'm sure there are much better stones out there...particularly for different types of knives or different tasks. Jon Brioda sells a ton of them lol. But for my needs...for kitchen knives, this stone does everything. It's also a large part of my razor progression...being the only stone I use from bevel set (usually an 800-1200 grit job), through the mid range right up to my pre-finisher.

If you have any other questions about it that I can answer...I'm more than happy to. I can take some pictures of the stone (I think)...even a 500x picture of the stone lol (which is kinda cool to look at...lots of what looks like quartz crystals). I'm more than happy to share what I've been able to learn.

Here's one more I found that I took of the edge on a 62HRC AISI W2 tool steel razor. The razors tend to have less tooth, probably due to the lack of angle change during sharpening...as the spine is resting on the hone as well.

Cool, I was tempted to buy a USB microscope from a jewelry supply company recently, but thought for the extend I'd use it it'd be a bad investment, but pretty damn cool :cool2:. Settled for a couple of loupes instead and a bunch of other tools I'll probably only use a couple times.

Try not to bait Cris, he isn't a vendor here and is limited in what he can post.

tjangula said:

Cool, I was tempted to buy a USB microscope from a jewelry supply company recently, but thought for the extend I'd use it it'd be a bad investment, but pretty damn cool :cool2:. Settled for a couple of loupes instead and a bunch of other tools I'll probably only use a couple times.

Click to expand...

Mine cost me $15 shipped. It's not insanely great...but it gave me a whole new insight into the edges I was making. Not so much for kitchen knives...but on the razors for sure.

Dardeau said:

Try not to bait Cris, he isn't a vendor here and is limited in what he can post.

Click to expand...

Thank you . It's nice to be able to post here...and I love the discussion/conversations. I just have to be careful what waters I dip my toes in. It's really helpful when the people I'm having the conversations with understand that and can help nudge the flow of things in the right direction.

Dardeau said:

Try not to bait Cris, he isn't a vendor here and is limited in what he can post.

Click to expand...

Anyone can google Cris Anderson or look on youtube and figure it out. There's some awesome stuff out there but the China Rock thing is what it is I suppose. I see too many stones like these today that are out there that are veiled in mystery that make people want to buy them when in reality they aren't anything special. I am VERY happy that his claims aren't as outrageous as some of the other ones with natural stones being imported from places like China, africa, the USA etc that are hyped to a level that people think they can finish straight razors on him. I've got a problem, mostly, with the "it doesn't dish" thing. Even translucent arks will dish and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder rock out there. Either way, good on you for finding something "new", just want to make sure there is real info out there before people want to spend cash on it.

brooksie967 said:

Anyone can google Cris Anderson or look on youtube and figure it out. There's some awesome stuff out there but the China Rock thing is what it is I suppose. I see too many stones like these today that are out there that are veiled in mystery that make people want to buy them when in reality they aren't anything special. I am VERY happy that his claims aren't as outrageous as some of the other ones with natural stones being imported from places like China, africa, the USA etc that are hyped to a level that people think they can finish straight razors on him. I've got a problem, mostly, with the "it doesn't dish" thing. Even translucent arks will dish and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder rock out there. Either way, good on you for finding something "new", just want to make sure there is real info out there before people want to spend cash on it.

Click to expand...

I agree completely...on all points.

Except the 'doesn't dish' thing...lol. I mean...will it dish over ten years? Absolutely...if used frequently enough, and by that I mean more than once a week. I happen to have three other stones that I would say don't dish as well. The first two are US naturals...the Apache Red and Apache Strata. The other is a Guangxi 12k. I have translucent Arkansas stones, and I would put all four of these stones right with it, if not above it...and this one close to the top. Literally...if you polished it high enough it would probably look like a green/grey shimmery granite.

I did find a picture you might find interesting. When I got my first stones they were both broken. But you can get a feel from how the look of the break just how hard they actually are. After I cleaned them up I put them in some water to soak a bit and snapped the picture.



The actual stone SolidSnake used is on the left in the dish.

CrisAnderson27 said:

Mine cost me $15 shipped. It's not insanely great...but it gave me a whole new insight into the edges I was making. Not so much for kitchen knives...but on the razors for sure.

Click to expand...

That's a pretty good price, that's probably about what I paid for the loupes, never mind a USB microscope. The one I was looking at was more expensive by several orders of magnitude, around $500CAD, but there were also some in the $150-200 range iirc.

Interested. Where can I buy/try one? PM perhaps?
Thanks.

Ruso said:

Interested. Where can I buy/try one? PM perhaps?
Thanks.

Click to expand...

I cannot in any way discuss the retail aspects of this stone or anything else on this site. Thanks for understanding.

tjangula said:

That's a pretty good price, that's probably about what I paid for the loupes, never mind a USB microscope. The one I was looking at was more expensive by several orders of magnitude, around $500CAD, but there were also some in the $150-200 range iirc.

Click to expand...

Yes...they get much nicer than mine lol. But what I need to see on mine...which is the condition of the actual edge...is pretty clear with this one, and I can take pictures to document my procedures that gave me a given result. Again...for the kitchen knives it's not much of a benefit...either it cuts a tomato cleanly or it doesn't lol. For things like straight razors though...the straightest line of edge is just the start, and it's a mandatory start. If you have ANY visible tooth at 500x, you're going to feel it on your face after your shave. Refinement starts there.