Looking for a 180mm nakiri with flat profile.

Hello,

I have been looking around for months and I'm still not sure what I should consider. I'd like a new nakiri because I enjoy the shape so much. Just a little bit longer than my current 165mm could make it even more all purpose, I could do larger veggies more naturally. I know I will get good advice.

LOCATION
What country are you in?

France


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Nakiri


Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Jp handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

180mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

Stain resistant, stainless clad or fine grain stainless.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

180$ shipped to France



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Fruits, vegetables, root vegetables like potato.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

A 165mm takeda with the ugly plastic ferrule but super sharp and I thinned it.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Chop

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better fit and finish, no plastic ferrule, stain resistance, thin ootb.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Poly boards

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes, got the whole kit.

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I would prefer to have a very flat profile on the blade, so it makes contact with all the board from just under the tip to the heel to you can chop all in one pass without having to do any rocking or slicing motion. I like thin behind the edge for happy potato cutting, I don't mind it if thinner means there is a bit more food sticking to the blade. I'd like to have a good height on the blade, but not too tall either. Not looking for a knuckle buster

Thanks for your attention,

Roger

A good choice would be the 180mm Watanabe blue steel core and stainless outside http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm . It could cost a bit more than 180$ after shipping costs, though. He charges a bit extra to replace the plastic hilt on this 180mm version. Good luck!

Itinomonn kasumi 180mm, stainless clad blue steel. 160 euro shipped from JNS.

I've owned both the Itinomonn Kasumi and Watanabe Pro and the Itinomonn is flatter. Both are excellent.

Although I don't know that I am a big believer in super flat profiles anymore. I'm beginning to suspect that some belly causes you to imperceptibly rock the knife as it strikes the board, making good cuts. While sometimes on very flat edges when it comes down square to the board you get the clack where it doesn't seem to meet quite right. I've owned Itinomonn and Tanaka gyutos (two makers with a bit of belly) and I can't say they accordianed food anymore than my Shig or Kochi.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I wonder how is edge retention on the Itinomonn. I don't know much about V2 cores, how good it is in comparison to aogami super steel or blue v2 for example. How fine of an edge does it takes/holds, what about, rust resistance, patina.

How thin behind the edge the Itinomonn is ? I would be happy with a knife already thin who would never need thinning or heavy stone work. I'm looking for consistency and clean bevels already done.

Thoses who own it, how often are your reaching for it ?

I've always been satisfied with V2, though I would *guess* the harder blue steel of the Watanabe would be slightly superior in regards to edge retention. IME both V2 and blue 2 are not terribly reactive, just taking on a darker patina over time.

My Itinomonn was very thin behind the edge, slightly thinner than the Watanabe in fact. Although both were very close, and I don't think the difference was discernible in the short time I had them.

The Watanabe was just slightly heavier than the Itinomonn. Both were on the heavier end of nakiris I've owned (I really like some weight)

Only downside to the Itinomonn was it did not keep the thin edge very far up the curved tip. If you do tip work you'll probably want to do something about that. Easy enough if you are good with stones or don't mind sending it to a good sharpener like Dave or Jon.

I also thought the kasumi finish slid through *some* food just a hair better than the Watanabe.

All in all , they are extremely similar kinives, with performance at the top of the heap. I would never know which to pick if they were for me. But I actually got them for a friend and he kept the Watanabe, so I have the Itinomonn. I should sell it because I just don't ever use nakiri, but it is such a fantastic knife.

I checked some pictures of the Itinomonn and the grind is not flat enough unfortunately. I want a flat spot almost all the way up, apparently it's a tough time to find one. I'm open to suggestions, even for a 165mm.

Worst case scenario, I could content myself with a knife that is almost flat and perfect in every other regards that I will flatten myself.

I've always thought the itinomonn profile is pretty flat. What about a Wakui kasumi nakiri? Or maybe wait a bit and save up for a Harner?

Mangelwurzel said:

I've always thought the itinomonn profile is pretty flat.

Click to expand...

Mine is very flat. I fit were any more flat it would practically be square, and I don't know why anyone would that in a knife.

I had a Moritaka that looked like a dollar bill on a stick. Tip and heel both square. Was a fun knife but I'm not into nakiri's

Look on BST. Itinomonn v2 180 nakiri for sale for $110 !!!!! Steal

420layersofdank said:

Look on BST. Itinomonn v2 180 nakiri for sale for $110 !!!!! Steal

Click to expand...

CONUS only.

As mentioned, not sure why you'd want an ultra-flat nakiri. Would be clunky and not Nakiri like, hence why they are not made this way.

I don't want a squared tip, that would be extreme, I want a real flat spot on like 5/6 of the blade, flat from the heel to almost the tip. I want that flat spot so I can chop in one downward motion.

The Moritaka nakiri is too short (though you said 165 might do), but it's utterly flat and within budget. Some people have had problems with overgrinds, but mine works a treat.

Mangelwurzel said:

I've always thought the Itinomonn profile is pretty flat. What about a Wakui kasumi nakiri? Or maybe wait a bit and save up for a Harner?

Click to expand...

Thing is how flat "pretty flat" is kind of depends on the personal preference... for me personally I would agree and call the Itinomonn pretty flat, because it has no belly towards the heel and offers a bigger sweet spot for chopping and push cutting any other knife I have. But as the original poster said (both in the first post and in a latter one), what he is looking for is a knife that's close to dead flat from the heel to the point where the edge curves up at the front. Which the Itinomonn isn't

Wakui profile is afaik similar, but if we're talking about the 180 sold by clearcut.se.... that's not available anymore to my own personal chagrin. Store only lists a 165 with a D-shaped handle, could be that they get some 180 again in the future, but not with octagonal handles anymore (Wakui switched the handle supplier).

AS I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is something not quite right about super flat edges. You want to chop "in one motion" but your arm doesn't move perpendicular to the board, it moves in an arc, and your wrist flexes. I don't understand the exact mechanics but my guess is that the blade must be allowed to roll to work with the natural chopping action. A slightly curved edge does this better than flat. I can only guess you have never used super flat blade, or have somehow trained yourself to deal with this unnatural movement. Knives are quite a finely evolved tool, and if they nearly all have some curve there must be a reason for it.

I never said I wanted a perfect square, far from it, I just want a large as possible flat spot.

Seeing that there is not so much choice in 180mm, I started to look for 165mm.

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Japanese-YAM...65-V2-Steel-/201392206989?hash=item2ee3e9348d

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Japanese-Shi...fe-165-/201342234417?var=&hash=item748a8c3e89

So I really like theses two, and they are affordable. I like the profile on the yamawaku better, but is this maker good ? I know the tanaka will be a great value but never tried the other brand.

Sure the Yamawaku/Wakui is good. It's a very good performer without modification, and the first time you thin it (might be a while since the edge is quite thin), you can enhance the convex on the bevel a bit and it'll be amazing.

Were it me I would settle on length and then go shopping. A 165 (Carter) is short for me, fun to use but definitely size limited and most useful for small meal prep. A 180 (Watanabe) is much more versatile. I can take on a few mushrooms or a case of them. Had a 210 Shig that was longer than I felt comfortable with.

Good luck.

The Yamawaku looks interesting, but I've never heard much about that maker. The Tanaka looks no flatter than my Itinomonn, but to me the deal breaker is the weight, Tanaka's are very thin and 165mm doesn't help. My main gyuto is a Tanaka R2, but for nakiri weight is crucial, and Tanaka just doesn't have it.

So are there any 180mm nakiris that have a flat profile, thick spine, thin behind the edge, great edge retention and Japanese handle ? Still looking to find that unicorn. I asked if the Yamawaku could be ordered in 180mm, I'm waiting for an answer.

How about a Shig from Maxim? Not stainless clad though. Also Tom (Lefty) has recently posted a nice looking Zensho 180mm nakiri on his Instagram page, so you might want to contact him about it.

So are there any more recommendations for 180mm stainless clad nakiris ? Rust resistant is good too. Thanks

I just got the email from Maxim today. There's a 20% off storewide sale at JNS with a discount code MOVE till 10/1. I picked up the Kasumi 180mm nakiri. VAT doesn't apply when shipping to the US and free shipping if you spend over 1000 Danish krone (DKK) so I added in a 90mm kasumi petty. Otherwise shipping is ~$35. I'd rather spend that on a knife. In any case, if you want the Itinomonn nakiri now's the time to get it because he doesn't always have them in stock during sales. Me, personally, I have a nakiri addiction for reasons that escape me. So far, a Watanabe Pro, a Carter kurouchi, a Masakage Yuki, a Tojiro DP, and now the Itinomonn. I think I need a psychiatrist.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-180mm-wa-nakiri/

Thanks for the tip Mr. HomeCook. I ordered the Itinomonn along with a small Benriner, for 155 euros shipped, it's a great deal I did not wanted to pass. I will try it with the factory edge, if the profile is not flat enough in practice I can always flatten it.

I recommend the shig kitaeji. I let my wife use it tonight and she was blown away by how it dealt with carrots etc.....Do the bad thing, buy a cool knife.

I have a Shig KU Nakiri and it is quite flat too, someone did a side by side comparison here of a KU vs Kitaeji, don't recall the link though. I do NOT recommend a Takeda Nakiri. I had one and I swear it was recurved towards the heel with almost no board contact. It had a mfg defect (cracks in cladding) so I was able to return it for store credit.

Check out Carter or Takeda nakiris. I believe Takedas are mostly in 165mm so it's a little small but Carter makes them in a few sizes.

eugen_onegin said:

Check out Carter or Takeda nakiris. I believe Takedas are mostly in 165mm so it's a little small but Carter makes them in a few sizes.

Click to expand...

The OP wants one with a flat profile, you probably didn't see my post which was immediately above yours:

tjangula said:

I have a Shig KU Nakiri and it is quite flat too, someone did a side by side comparison here of a KU vs Kitaeji, don't recall the link though. I do NOT recommend a Takeda Nakiri. I had one and I swear it was recurved towards the heel with almost no board contact. It had a mfg defect (cracks in cladding) so I was able to return it for store credit.

Click to expand...

And a pic to price it: