Recommendations for a high end knife for a professional chef - filled out questionnaire

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Chefs knife (Gyutou)


Are you right or left handed?

Right handed


Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Japanese handle


What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

10"


Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

Yes


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$1000 but preferably less.


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Professional (daily)


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

All of the above.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Global 10" chefs knife


Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

2 finger pinch


What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Forward slice


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Sharpness and edge retention


Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Heavier than current global knife, better handle shape (more secure grip for 2 finger pinch), improved balance over global.


Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Better slicing motion and less wedging, better food release (would like less pressure applied with wrist)


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

At least a month between sharpening.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Synthetic cutting board

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

No

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

No

Thanks in advance.

I don't see 1 month between sharpening happening with heavy daily use in a pro kitchen. Granted I have not tried any PM steels, but I can't imagine they are magnitudes better at edge holding.

Of course PM steel knives will be harder and more chippy. If it chips, that's even more sharpening time to repair and they take longer to sharpen then say a simple a carbon steel like White #1

If you are able to take the breaking down chickens and cutting through chicken bones out of your requirements, as that pretty much disqualifies most of the Japanese gyutos we commonly discuss here and instead use a different knife for that, you will find a world of choices open to you, especially considering your budget.

Reading over your list of requirements, the knife that immediately comes to my mind is the Zwilling Kramer Meiji line (10" shown below)...it's not as expensive as some other suggestions you may get, but I don't really play in the knives above $400, though I think few would argue that this is not a compelling choice due to its overall combination of performance, ergonomics, fit and finish and looks. I would recommend going to a Sur la Table and trying them out if you can to see if you like the feel in your hand, but when I tried it, it was incredibly comfortable in the hand in pinch grip and felt very secure due to the handle shape, in particular the pronounced ridge on the right side. It will also be heavier than most Japanese-handled gyutos, although it is the lightest of the Zwilling Kramer lines, but it has such great geometry (very thin behind the edge) and excellent cutting performance that you don't need a lot of weight from it to cut through product. Wedging is definitely not in this knife's vocabulary, but I suspect it will have pretty good food release too. I don't own a Meiji, but I have a Zwilling Kramer Essential 8" and 10", which is pretty similar functionally (but with Euro handle and no damascus cladding) and I'm amazed how with the geometry that has a bit of convexing to allow food release, but still be very thin at the edge shoulder.

You can read us discussing the Meiji further in this KKF thread.

P.S. I think Sur la Table has a discount (like 15%?) for culinary industry professionals. If you can't get to a Sur la Table B&M, they have a great return policy and you should feel confident ordering online.

Another suggestion I would have is a knife by Takamura.

http://www.mtckitchen.com/c-147-takamura.aspx

Unfortunately it seems the largest Takamura Hana (with more of a Japanese-inspired handle) only goes up to a 210 mm gyuto, but there is a Takamura Damascus 240 mm gyuto with a western handle. Definitely would qualify as a luxury, high-end kitchen knife with a $600 price tag to boot (the Takamura HSPS Pro 240 mm gyuto without damascus cladding is about half).

richard said:

Another suggestion I would have is a knife by Takamura.

http://www.mtckitchen.com/c-147-takamura.aspx

Unfortunately it seems the largest Takamura Hana (with more of a Japanese-inspired handle) only goes up to a 210 mm gyuto, but there is a Takamura Damascus 240 mm gyuto with a western handle. Definitely would qualify as a luxury, high-end kitchen knife with a $600 price tag to boot (the Takamura HSPS Pro 240 mm gyuto without damascus cladding is about half).

Click to expand...

For reasons unknown Takamura Hana gyuto is only available <=210mm. I have the 240 Pro gyuto and also recently got the 240 Uchigumo gyuto (same as the Damascus one in the picture) and am going to get it rehandled. If you are really keen on the differences I could try and post some comparison pics/specs of each. Either one would leave some $ left over for another knife better suited for heavier tasks

tjangula said:

For reasons unknown Takamura Hana gyuto is only available <=210mm. I have the 240 Pro gyuto and also recently got the 240 Uchigumo gyuto (same as the Damascus one in the picture) and am going to get it rehandled. If you are really keen on the differences I could try and post some comparison pics/specs of each. Either one would leave some $ left over for another knife better suited for heavier tasks

Click to expand...

Legend speaks of a 270 that if anyone sees they are to inform me.

Godslayer said:

Legend speaks of a 270 that if anyone sees they are to inform me.

Click to expand...

I have a 270 Pro/Blazen Suji, and want (need) a 270 Uchigumo Suji. They have Gyutos available up to 300 but not in Hana series for some reason :scratchhead:. Ive never seen a Pro/Uchigumo >240 being sold, although that would be cool :cool2:.

OP - for a 10", 240mm is a bit shy. Another option which I didn't think about earlier is the Sukenari nickel Damascus ZDP-189 wa-gyuto, available in both 240 and 270; I see that Koki has recently added a Kiritsuke too: http://japanesechefsknife.com/SukenariSpecials.html#ZDP189DamascusWaGyuto

You'd be within your budget and have $ left for a heavier duty knife and/or a custom rehandle if desired. That said the knife has been shown to take a beating… cut thru bones and all, I wouldn't recommend that personally. See this thread from beginning to end and watch the videos: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/22170-Oh-Macro-chip-on-a-rather-pricey-knife. Don't be put off by the fact it has a chip at the beginning, that was due to negligence. I had the same knife but decided I sell and get the AS Damascus instead. ZDP-189 is stainless and known for edge retention so this knife seems to check all of your criteria.

I'll suggest these warrant a look. Not a bone cutter (and none of those discussed thus far are) but one I would be looking at with your requirements. It will also leave you with some coin for a yo deba or another "beater" type knife for the whack em all jobs. Ginsanko holds up well for me but a month between sharpening may be a reach.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...-hide-240mm-ginsanko-hon-kasumi-wa-gyuto.html

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...gesshin-kagekiyo-270mm-ginsanko-wa-gyuto.html

A Yoshikane SLD is another very nice stainless, don't know of a current vendor.

Stainless clad carbon or stainless clad stainless would open more options up for you.

Good luck.

Godslayer said:

Legend speaks of a 270 that if anyone sees they are to inform me.

Click to expand...

I think the world of Takamura, but honestly I don't think I would like a 270 mm gyuto from them. There is too big a jump in weight and blade heaviness from the 240 to the 270 mm.

I don't think you're requirements for edge retention (one month between sharpenings) and breaking poultry bones aren't really compatible. I think a petty or honesuki or garasuki could serve well for breaking down poultry, and you could get a cheap and thick Chinese cleaver for the bones.

Seems like you want to cover a lot of tasks with a single knife. I for one would not want to debone a chicken with 240mm gyuto. You have more than enough budget to buy 2-3 quality knives (for example gyuto, honesuki and deba). You may want to consider to contact some of the vendors here - they can help you to pick the right knife(knives) and give you the advice necessary.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. This post was made for a friend who wanted some recommendations not for myself. I told him about not using the knife for deboning or cutting bones and he is fine with that. Although he prefers stainless, he is also ok with a nonstainless if a nonstainless will better serve him, although admittedly he is currently used to stainless blades. I will go over with him the suggestions made so far. Any other suggestions with the new criteria in mind?

What we do not know how much experience your friend has with high end knives - different knives (grinds, steels) will serve different purpose. For example - the Yoskikane SDK or SLD (both semi-stainless steels with the SLD being closer to stainless) knives have really great steel, but it get micro-chip if not used or sharpened properly. The grind is quasi-wide bevel. The knives cut well, but are not the thinnest ones out there. You may have a look, as a matter of good example, at the Gesshin Kagero which are made out of stainless PM steel and will have excellent edge holding. Should your friend be interested to go towards carbon knives, than there are just too many choices. I still think that the best way would be for your friend to call or email an experienced vendor (I have already mentioned JKI, but there are many more), the best of course is to have a chance to check the knives in person and chat a little with the seller.

I also think that 1 month without sharpening in a professional kitchen is bit too much to ask.