Does My T-F Petty have an Overgrind?

Hi all,

I'm not completely sure what overgind exactly is, but received my petty today and while it is razor sharp all around and looks great, was curious about two spots and just looking for some information from people who know.

I did my best to take pictures of it. It is quite difficult to take a picture of a knife's edge.

Please let me know what you think it is and if it will affect the knife's performance at all. It is sharp at these spots, so I wasn't quite sure.

http://i.imgur.com/CvO9L8P.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/g99vz33x1/IMG_3870.jpg

Thank you!

Yes, it appears to, but from the angle it could just be a very uneven grind.

Almost forgot to say Welcome robenco15!

You would eventually see the over grind when you put the knife edge perpendicular against a flat surface after a couple of sharpenings. Is there a gap? Can you sharpen that gap out? If you can't, that's an over grind.

Thanks guys, when I put it down on the board it lays perfectly flat on the board. No gaps.

Does an uneven grind do anything negative or is just aesthetic? Kinda like how the tip is thinned a little bit. I don't own stones, just strops (3 micron and 1 micron and horse leather).

Great knife so far!

As you sharpen and work your way up the knife you will get into the overgrind...if it is deeper than half-way through the knife you will wind up with a hole in that spot...as Pesky said, if you can sharpen it out then it doesn't matter but depending on depth that may not be possible.

Well, the cladding line is very even and it lays flat, so I'm wondering if my lack of knowledge of what an overgrind is mixed with what just appears to be an unevenly polished bevel was making me jump to conclusions. The knife's metal is even throughout, no thicker or thinner spots. After looking at it more, it just seems like the edge at those two spots (which are next to each other on both sides of the knife) is polished a bit differently/unevenly.

Sharpening/more stropping should even out the bevel polish right?

It's tough to get the best views of the knife when taking the photos with light reflecting off of it, etc.

For what it's worst I just took it to the strops for the past 15-20 minutes and already both spots near the tip are starting to even out. Both sides are more polished than they were in the above pictures and starting to match the rest of the bevel. In fact, the one side goes from a thicker polished bevel at the heel and slowly tapers evenly to the tip, so I guess that side is more or less fixed. The side with the thinned tip still needs some work, but I think that is mostly me being inconsistent when using my left hand to strop.

It really looks like your knife is fine. I think your issue is with cladding, which looks sightly uneven. This is a purely esthetic issue.

El Pescador said:

It really looks like your knife is fine. I think your issue is with cladding, which looks sightly uneven. This is a purely esthetic issue.

Click to expand...

Is the cladding the part that I can/did polish? The brushed looking metal right above the polished bevel?

Yup. Your knife is made up of a core steel layered between a softer steel cladding. The transition between the two different steels is what I think you are having issues with.

El Pescador said:

Yup. Your knife is made up of a core steel layered between a softer steel cladding. The transition between the two different steels is what I think you are having issues with.

Click to expand...

I agree! I'll just have to further polish that cladding to even out the polished bevel.

I thought the cladding was the squiggly line running above it the length of the knife.

Very cool. It is a great knife. Haven't been able to sit down for more than 30 minutes without stropping it more or cutting more vegetables. I think I may need to thin it at some point though. It is a bit wedge-y at times. Kinda weird.

That maker is kinda known for having very uneven grids on his bevels, but not for over grinds. He just doesn't seem to worry about the appearance of the bevel (particularly on the lower end lines) as long as the knife cuts well and the heat treat is good, which is usually the case. If you're looking to obtain a perfect wide bevel on his nashiji line, you're destined for disappointment. If you don't care that much about how it looks, just use it and enjoy.

Be well,
Mikey

It's looks pretty typical for a TF Nashiji. I have one and the grinds are not close to identical from one side to the other. These are very rustic knives and relatively cheap 80-90 bucks I think. It's a good cutter with decent steel, but definetly not a collector piece. People at the other site seem to worship these for some reason, I find them functional and more of a workhorse type of knive.

Chicagohawkie said:

People at the other site seem to worship these for some reason, I find them functional and more of a workhorse type of knive.

Click to expand...

There's another site? :cool2:

They also favor strops a lot more than you'll find here. I'll use one to finish - sometimes - but to work metal I want a rock. You're not going to pretty up that edge by stropping.

I have the same on my TF nakiri, it's not even the cheap line, it's on my Maboroshi. F&F definitely not as good as with other knives, but works just fine. But I agree, it's something to use, not look at and marvel at its beauty. Same as with the Watanabe sliver I got, but I LOVED dealing directly with the maker (especially Watanabe, who's a pleasure to communicate with)!

Thanks for the further input. I have been able to clean it up with stropping and now the bevel is even.

The other site has been fantastic for me and extremely helpful. I understand the praise for this knife as it is beautiful, feels fantastic, does an amazing job cutting, but definitely has that workhorse feel too, which is what I want in a knife.

I'm also glad this place exists too. Nothing wrong with having more than one resource!

daveb said:

There's another site? :cool2:

They also favor strops a lot more than you'll find here. I'll use one to finish - sometimes - but to work metal I want a rock. You're not going to pretty up that edge by stropping.

Click to expand...

Agreed!
Btw, I have the Lightning back in the cup series this year. Hopefully Stevie get stamkos locked up to another contract , one of the best in nhl.

What does TF stand for?

alterwisser said:

I have the same on my TF nakiri, it's not even the cheap line, it's on my Maboroshi. F&F definitely not as good as with other knives, but works just fine. But I agree, it's something to use, not look at and marvel at its beauty. Same as with the Watanabe sliver I got, but I LOVED dealing directly with the maker (especially Watanabe, who's a pleasure to communicate with)!

Click to expand...

Funny you mention, I also have a TF Maborishi Nakiri - the 195mm large version. Decent knive, but needs work outta the box to shine. I also enjoy dealing directly with makers, too bad most use distribution. Understand their reason for doing this though.

Dave Martell said:

What does TF stand for?

Click to expand...

teruyasu fujiwara (i.e. rather expensive but poorly f&f knife that some people love...)

Chicagohawkie said:

Funny you mention, I also have a TF Maborishi Nakiri - the 195mm large version. Decent knive, but needs work outta the box to shine. I also enjoy dealing directly with makers, too bad most use distribution. Understand their reason for doing this though.

Click to expand...

Yeah! Ashi was also great, but I heard they stopped selling direct. Not sure it's true. Also emailed with the guy making the Shibata line (don't remember the name, he's known for kickass sharpening, not so much the knives). He was awesome, but didn't want to ship direct either.

I always use my Sandvik work email address, has shown to be quite the conversation starter as most knife makers know and/or have used Sandvik steel...

chinacats said:

teruyasu fujiwara (i.e. rather expensive but poorly f&f knife that some people love...)

Click to expand...

It's an ok knife I'd say, nothing special. Agree that you can get much better F&F for the money. For less actually.

What's the best F&F deal bargain out there, you think?

edit: nevermind.

chinacats said:

teruyasu fujiwara (i.e. rather expensive but poorly f&f knife that some people love...)

Click to expand...

Thanks Jim

alterwisser said:

It's an ok knife I'd say, nothing special. Agree that you can get much better F&F for the money. For less actually.

What's the best F&F deal bargain out there, you think?

Click to expand...

I'm surprised it is being considered just an ok knife. The heat treatment of the steel and hardness is pretty remarkable and it is a beautiful knife. In terms of the F&F, the only "complaint" I had was the uneven bevel, which I fixed anyway. Aside from that, it is pretty near flawless, is stunning to look at with its rustic look (unless that isn't your thing), and performs even better than how I'd want a petty to perform given the amount of money I paid.

Given the disdain that this forum has for CKtG (which I've discovered in my 3 days here) I wonder if any knife that CKtG community highly recommends comes under some sort of bias here. Everything I read here that may not jive with what I've read on CKtG (and vice versa now) I feel like I have to take with some consideration that this place hates CKtG. But, that is just some observations from more or less an outsider.

Preferably, as I have gotten my answer already and this thread is starting to go off the rails, I'd love it if it could be deleted.

robenco15 said:

Given the disdain that this forum has for CKtG (which I've discovered in my 3 days here) I wonder if any knife that CKtG community highly recommends comes under some sort of bias here. Everything I read here that may not jive with what I've read on CKtG (and vice versa now) I feel like I have to take with some consideration that this place hates CKtG. But, that is just some observations from more or less an outsider.

Preferably, as I have gotten my answer already and this thread is starting to go off the rails, I'd love it if it could be deleted.

Click to expand...

The folks over at CKTG would have you believe two things are true:

1. Everything they sell is great.

2. We dis everything they sell.


Neither is true.

FWIW, my opinion of the Teruyasu Fujiwara knives is low. I can't think of another knife who's fit 'n finish is so poor. The western handles are by far the worst with crazy shaped bolster and tang fit ups. The bevel grinds aren't good at all and the spine is usually sharper than the edge.

So to the OP's original question...

Is this an overgrind?

I'd say maybe. It sure has some telling signs but it could also be that some areas aren't ground enough (as in underground). It's tough to say without having the knife in hand. You did the first part of the inspection by using a flat stone to show where the blade hits but you still need to do the second portion using a straight edge. Use this along the edge to show gaps and from the top of the bevel to edge again to show gaps. If a low spot has a gap then that's a further indication of trouble and if the opposite side, in the same section of edge, has this issue then it's 90%+ that an overgrind will cause you a problem over time.

Sometimes it's not very cut or dry.

Dave Martell said:

The folks over at CKTG would have you believe two things are true:

1. Everything they sell is great.

2. We dis everything they sell.


Neither is true.

Click to expand...

I 2nd that. CKTG has a pretty wide range of knives, but almost always you can find them cheaper somewhere else. And while I'm happy to pay more for certain perks (service, knowledge, consultation, direct contact with maker, friendliness...) I don't see that constantly offered with this vendor...

Dave Martell said:

FWIW, my opinion of the Teruyasu Fujiwara knives is low. I can't think of another knife who's fit 'n finish is so poor. The western handles are by far the worst with crazy shaped bolster and tang fit ups. The bevel grinds aren't good at all and the spine is usually sharper than the edge.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say sharp, but very, very rough. I think mine could've been used for grating cheese prior to smoothing it...