Steel Shortages

Hi all.

Back after losing my job and hitting rock bottom. Anywho...

Doing some reading about K&S not restocking the tanaka ginsan knife, so I thought I'd ask my friend at JCK if he could elucidate the situation... Didn't mean to scare anyone but it seems that there is currently or has been recently trouble obtaining a few of the fairly coveted steel types... I just edited out my personal information from this email, again it is from Mr. Koki.

[email protected] said:

Dear _______ _______

Thank you very much for your new inquiry and interest.

Yes. We also heard many of knife makers are struggling with the difficult delivery situation of steel materials from Steel Companies.

If the makers struggles to have the steel materials, it makes longer delivery time for making and finishing the knife items (it affects very much for delivery time), if the price of steel materials become high, it also affect for the price of the knife items too.

We heard many makers are struggling to get below kinds of steels especially.

VG-10 Damascus
Aogami Super
Gingami No.3
ZDP-189
Cowry X
R-2
Etc..

We regret the difficult situation from steel companies. (The knife industry is very small if we compare to Car industry or other big industry. Therefore, steel companies are not targeting very much for the knife industry and sometimes the knife makers struggle to get the steel materials…

We hope the situation will be solved and each makers can make more of fine Japanese knives.

If you will have any questions, please let us know and help.

Best Regards

Koki Iwahara
JapaneseChefsKnife.Com

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:shocked3: Fudge.

Sh!t man, sorry to hear about the job situation. I was wondering why you hadn't been around for awhile and I guess this is why. I take it things are at least on the up now that you're posting again.

I did read about the steel shortage but had no idea of the magnitude. I hope it won't impact my backordered Takamura Sujihiki (R2 steel). If I can't get more knives after this one it won't really bother me personally, although I do think of the bladesmiths who's livelihood is contingent upon the availability of the steel.

Sorry about the job situation SB.

tjangula, is the Takamura suji laser-like? Is MTC Kitchen the only supplier, no one else shows up in a google?


Rick

I currentlyhave the MTC kitchen 270 Takamura Suji (from the Takamura Pro / Blazen series) but the one I have backordered is the Uchigumo Damascus series. Knifewear sells them up in Canada

What has caused said shortage? Spike in demand for knives - both kitchen and general purpose, or some supply constraints?

Well I believe Cowry-x is supposed to be a Daido Steel product, and I think VG-10 is produced by a few makers (but not Hitachi Metals afaik), so it doesn't seem to be limited solely to Hitachi Metals. I will try writing him tomorrow to ask if he knows or has heard any rumours about what the reason for the shortage is, if it is temporary etc.

I think Cowry-x, for example, is usually difficult to obtain, no? He's saying something in the email about cars, etc so I suspect maybe steel manufacturers have some type of seasonality, wherein a large portion of resources are dedicated to producing X type of steel and until such time that a sufficient amount of X steel has been produced it's probably difficult to get billets of anything. But I'm really speculating here about stuff I have no experience with.

trust me, the entire Sakai has ran out of ginsan. Some knife makers can't even get their hands on white 1

Well damn. This didn't seem to happen last year around this time though? So not sure if it seasonality :dontknow:. Anyways I wouldn't be overly worried for wellbeing of the smiths. If push comes to shove they'll "just" have to switch steels. Which is gonna suck for everyone and probably will lead to a decrease in quality (at least temporarily) for a lot of makers, but yeah...

Quick, quick, buy every knife you have a vague hankering for... there will soon be shortages, and you will only get to bequeath your place on the Shig waiting list to your descendants, speaking only in hushed tones before you expire about mythical ones you saw many a year ago on BST......:justkidding: Actually some of us already bloody well buy everything they can get their hands on.

Let me try and straighten things out here.

Lizzardborn said:

What has caused said shortage? Spike in demand for knives - both kitchen and general purpose, or some supply constraints?

Click to expand...

Pretty much you got it.

pkjames said:

trust me, the entire Sakai has ran out of ginsan. Some knife makers can't even get their hands on white 1

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False.


Its not a steel shortage... Simple supply and demand curve. Not enough quality of producers of knives and so much demand. Expect prices to jump in the near future.

@tjangula again, you missed my other question: Is the Takamura Pro suji in the laser-thin category?


Rick

I did some searching last night and all I could find was a report that Japanese steel manufacturers have backed off production because of a Chinese steel supply increase. They didn't specify why they would want to do this though. ????

VG-10 I think has for some time been produced and sold by the tonnes by a chinese company called "ahonest" which may account for all those extremely cheap VG-10 knives we see.

Anyway I'd love to hear more from OsakaJoe on this, because I understand he actually works "in the industry" whereas what we have thus far is second hand information from vendors. While I do trust Mr. Iwahara totally and I don't think pkjames needs to be cosigned either, however I find it interesting that Mr. OsakaJoe would contradict what was supposedly told to pkjames by people he'd just visited in Nippon, all of which was confirmed by Koki (who I'm fairly sure is located in Gifu)

Here is my response from Mr. Iwahara... again, for what it's worth. Removed personal info.

[email protected] said:

Dear _______

Thank you very much for your interest and confirmation.

Yes. One of the main reason is the size of Knife Industry. (it is not the big). The Steel company such as Hitachi Steel company, Daido Steel company don’t make very much energy or time for steel business (for the knife industry) and it sometimes affect for the delivery problem. Because of same reason, steel materials (for knife industries) often become higher price (from the steel company).

We hope the situation will be going better and the Japanese knives and industry will be finer in future.

We also heard Master Tanaka is having busy time and backorders. He might needed to narrow his selections.

Thank you very much again for your interest and confirmation.

Have a great Autumn time !!

Best Regards

Koki Iwahara
JapaneseChefsKnife.Com

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Now. I hope we can carry on in this thread without getting argumentative. I think it is interesting and important for people to be able to see what's coming down the road (like price increases en masse) and react, if possible (buying what may become too expensive or discontinued entirely).

Btw, for the people looking for Tanaka 270 Ginsanko gyutos... there are 4 on ebay from MM. You're welcome.

Sad times on the job, look at it as an opportunity to find something that is going to make you happy.

Dardeau said:

Sad times on the job, look at it as an opportunity to find something that is going to make you happy.

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Amen!

Thanks guys, appreciate it.

Interesting thread. I wonder how much demand is there for expensive powder steels like Cowry X and ZDP-189. Never used or sharpened either. Have sharpened a Henckels Miyabi 7000. Most cooks I know don't know much about steel at all. Are these expensive PM that much better than SRS-15, Hap40, & Tojiro HSPS? In the 200.00 range & less for the Tojiro some of the best stainless I have used.

I guess the cheap Tojiro DP I bought on Amazon is made with Chinese VG-10. :sad0:

Some good knife steels have other uses as well as in razor blades & metal cutting. I can see how knife only high end steels might not be a high priority for large steel foundries.

keithsaltydog said:

Interesting thread. I wonder how much demand is there for expensive powder steels like Cowry X and ZDP-189. Never used or sharpened either. Have sharpened a Henckels Miyabi 7000. Most cooks I know don't know much about steel at all. Are these expensive PM that much better than SRS-15, Hap40, & Tojiro HSPS? In the 200.00 range & less for the Tojiro some of the best stainless I have used.

I guess the cheap Tojiro DP I bought on Amazon is made with Chinese VG-10. :sad0:

Some good knife steels have other uses as well as in razor blades & metal cutting. I can see how knife only high end steels might not be a high priority for large steel foundries.

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Just to be clear I was talking about the real bush league stuff, some of it shipping from Taiwan and Korea, but also brands like Seto Iseya and a few others I can't think of. Unless you're talking about the bolsterless "home use" tojiro DP... :shocked3: I'm just assuming, again, I don't know much at all about where any of these steels are sourced. You can find ahonest changjiang stainless steel co here http://www.ahoneststeel.en.alibaba.com/ (If this link is not appropriate to post please remove for me mods!).

osakajoe said:

Let me try and straighten things out here.



Pretty much you got it.



False.


Its not a steel shortage... Simple supply and demand curve. Not enough quality of producers of knives and so much demand. Expect prices to jump in the near future.

Click to expand...

Just in time for the holidays too :detective:

rick alen said:

@tjangula again, you missed my other question: Is the Takamura Pro suji in the laser-thin category?


Rick

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Sorry about that, I'll check with callipers this evening.

Dave Martell said:

I did some searching last night and all I could find was a report that Japanese steel manufacturers have backed off production because of a Chinese steel supply increase. They didn't specify why they would want to do this though. ????

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They must be gearing up for the Misen kick starter production

I am just passing my experience that I learnt from a few suppliers, and i sincerely hope i am wrong in this case

rick alen said:

@tjangula again, you missed my other question: Is the Takamura Pro suji in the laser-thin category?


Rick

Click to expand...

Not as thin as the R2 Migaki series, but still decent; YMMV. I got 2.8mm above the heel (the welded tang/bolster make it a bit thicker on the top of the spine for the first inch or so) and 1.9mm above the Takamura triangle logo.

The Takamura Pro is forged while the Migaki is stamped. Both are quite thin behind the edge, but Migaki is thinner overall.