UPGRADING Everything starting with Gyuto -- Advice please!

First Post but have read threads hear until my brain was fried -- thanks to all the members for the great information here.

Finally sick enough of my German knives to upgrade, they served me well for decades when I was young and poor. I have the skill to keep them shaving sharp, but edge retention has always been an issue. Have a chronic wrist pain issue on my dominant hand, so looking for something that will take a wicked edge and maintain well for daily tasks at home.

I will be upgrading all my knives over the next year or two. Firstly, I am looking at Gyuto style knives.


GYUTO for home use: 255 IDEAL, LEANING TOWARD 270

RIGHT HANDED, but prefer symmetrical blade.

HANDLE TYPE: Not committed to a particular handle style

STEEL REQUIREMENT: I have used stones to sharpen all my knives for years and feel skilled in getting a variety of steels scary sharp. I am not worried about rust prevention or patina, am open to anything from Mirror to Damascus to Kuro-Uchi. Ease of sharpening and edge retention are very important to me. I enjoy sharpening but have a bad wrist on my dominant hand and don’t want to spend hours sharpening a steel that is difficult to get razor sharp that does not hold up well to average daily use.

AESTHETICS: Function over aesthetics so am open to anything from Mirror to Damascus to Kuro-Uchi -- although everything being equal, I like knives with character and love the looks of a Kuro-Uchi finish. I must stress, however, that ease of sharpening and edge retention are most important to me.

BUDGET: I can afford quality and am willing to go up to $750 but I in no way believe that I have to spend a ton of money for quality. I am sure I can buy good quality for little money. That being said, I am the type of individual that researches the crap out of everything that I intend to buy once that should last me decades and never regret buying quality items.

KNIFE USE: Will be using Gyuto for typical Gyuto takes such as vegetables at home. I will be buying separate knives for bone-in meat prep and simple butchering tasks. I use a Gyuto style knife and slicer/carver for the majority of my kitchen tasks.

CUTTING MOTIONS: I use a variety of rock chopping, push cutting and slicing and do a fair amount of rock chopping.

GRIP: Use a variety and change my grip for the task but for a Gyuto mostly pinch and finger point with occasional hammer.

SHARPENING: I consider myself skilled and experienced in the use of stone which is all I use. No problem getting knives scary sharp, but I definitely appreciate different steel characteristics I want a steel that can take a wicked edge and is reasonable to maintain in a home kitchen without heavy use or abuse.


WHAT I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT SO FAR: (but am open to ANY suggestions and advice)

Gesshin Kagekiyo Blue #1 Wa--Gyuto
Tanaka R2 (SG-2) Gyoto 270 mm
Konosuke Fujiyama White #2 Gyuto 270mm
Konosuke Fujiyama Aogami #2 (Blue #2) 270mm Gyuto
Carter Cutlery 8.48 Sun Kuro-Uchi Gyuto
Richmond Ultimatum 270

PLEASE GIVE ADVICE -- open to all suggestions, Please also comment if you think any of the above knives are a definite no-go....
Thanks in advance for all advice and comments.

I normally don't offer much on these types of threads, I just watch/read them out of pure interest. However, after reading your request, I feel like you should check out Kurosaki AS 270 gyuto. It has the kurouchi finish you mentioned you find pleasing, has AS blue steel (carbon) core with stainless cladding and is much less than $750 which leaves you w/ extra dough to spend on another cool knife.

I have the 240 version of this gyuto and just can't say enough good things about this knife. Other members here are probably getting tired of hearing me rattle off about this knife, but dollar/performance wise, there's not much that beats it (in my experience).

From the others you mentioned, I have always wanted to get a gesshin Kagekiyo B1. Beautiful knife. I've used the kiritsuke version in this line and it was amazing.
I had the Konosuke Fuji B2 in 240mm and it was definitely a solid performer. But what I thought performed better when compared side by side is this guy here:

http://www.knivesandstones.com/sakai-takayuki-syousin-sakura-wa-gyuto-270mm/

Talk to James, who is a vendor here. He can even do a custom handle and saya for you. I have the 240 version of this. Far, FAR from disappointing come performance. How does it compare to the Kagekiyo? I don't know but hopefully one day will find out first hand. But both vendors are beyond top notch in my book.

For the Carter, I have a 240mm HG gyuto, stainless with white 1 core. Let's just say that Carter has earned his status, and earned it well.

Probably didn't offer you much help here, but I still recommend checking out Kurosaki.

Marc4pt0 knows his knives...I would only add that you can't go wrong with anything from Jon (JKI) or James (Knives and Stones). Carters as of late have had some random issues--I believe he stands behind his knives so you could get it cleared up fairly easily, but for a newer user I would suggest avoiding them as it may be more difficult to recognize the issues before use without experience with these types of knives. I really think the high end Tanakas are great knives (so are the low end ones if you don't mind a bit of work).

I would only add this thread to your reading list as it may give you a better understanding of asymmetry--as well as the fact that anything Japanese will be at least a bit asymmetric--actually a good thing imo.

Cheers

Haburn has a 240mm western Gyuto in Aeb-L on his site for less than your max. I've got one of his kurouchi gyutos in carbon and love it, I choose it as my go to knife at the moment. That being said, the Carter will get extremely sharp with little effort although the fit an finish falls short of a Haburn. Best would be to either wait for Ian to offer another Kurouchi (or sweet talk him into making one for you) gyuto, or grab the western on the site. Less expensive than the carter and there is nothing to upgrade on the knife (you will eventually want to replace the handle on the carter, mine had a lot of differential movement between the horn and the ho wood.

Since you are after ease of sharpening and good edge retention at the same time I would look at knives made from super blue (AS), R2 (SG2), SDK (semi-stainless steel), SLD (semi-stainless steel), AEB-L

I have Yoshikane SKD santoku that has quite incredible edge holding while being still rather easy to sharpen. My super blue Masakage Koishi ko-bunka also holds edge extremely well. I used to have a beautiful damascus clad Tanaka R2 which did hold edge very well and was very easy to sharpen (it was a very thin knife so that helps there too). My Carter funayuki (white #1) does not hold edge anywhere near as well as the SKD or AS, but is the easiest to sharpen and you could just touch it up on your finishing stone (4000 - 6000 grit) here and then. But if that is not what should suit you, than I would stay away from white steels as they just do not have edge holding as many others (though are arguably one of the easiest to sharpen).

I've been eye-humping that knife since he posted it in his store. Not a bad suggestion at all! The only thing stopping me from getting it is basement repair, and the fact that I already own 2 of his with the same food-release grind emphasis. I'm waiting for his performance grind, really curious in comparing it to the food release grind...

I've got one of his damascus gyutos with the food release grind and the korouchi gyuto with the performance grind and I prefer the performance grind for the most part. The food release grind is just ever so slightly wedgy but still an outstanding cutter. I only see any wedginess when cutting something like a large potato, it will give just a slight crackle sound but the knife cuts all the way through. The performance grind pretty much slides right through everything. Not as thin as my carter but it's close.

Thanks for your advice. The Kurosaki AS Gyuto seems like too good of a value to pass up so I have ordered one. I am sure that venturing into the world of Japanese knives will be like opening up a bag of potato chips, much like my other hobbies - so am starting the financial plunge softly

Gark said:

I am sure that venturing into the world of Japanese knives will be like opening up a bag of potato chips, much like my other hobbies - so am starting the financial plunge softly

Click to expand...

You have no idea...:rofl:

Gark said:

Thanks for your advice. The Kurosaki AS Gyuto seems like too good of a value to pass up so I have ordered one. I am sure that venturing into the world of Japanese knives will be like opening up a bag of potato chips, much like my other hobbies - so am starting the financial plunge softly

Click to expand...

Welcome to the dark side LOL

Who makes the performance and food release grind knives?

HomeCook said:

Who makes the performance and food release grind knives?

Click to expand...

Ian Rogers at Haburn knives is who I was talking about. His work is top notch in every respect.

Rock chop with thin hard (brittle) Japanese knives at your own risk. Even with an end grain wood board, rock chopping can be hard on the thin blades you are looking at. The knives will be rather different from the German knives you are used to, so it may be time to make some technique changes as well. You have plenty of threads to research to your heart's content here. Welcome to Japanese (and/or high end custom) knives!

go with wakui, you won't be disapointed

What is the reason you prefer a symmetrically ground blade?

For a combination of ease of sharpening and edge retention, I recommend SRS15. This is a PM steel that is used in one particular OEM knife (as far as I can tell) that has been sold under a few different names over the years . . . akifusa, ikeda, harayuki, etc. Also appears to be the gesshin kagero from JKI. It is a no frills knife so not much in the way of asthetics, but wa versions have recently been released with a bit more character. Check out the following two links.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/gesshin/gesshin-kagero/gesshin-kagero-240mm-wa-gyuto.html

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=93727

I have the santoku in the western handled series. The steel is pretty easy to sharpen, can take and hold whatever edge you put on it, and has been very chip resistant for me. I had microchips on the factory edge but none since, and that includes two handed rock chopping to mince garlic and herbs on both wooden and plastic boards. Edge retention on SRS15 is also excellent, as with PM steels in general. Standard heat treat in this line is 64 HrC, according to Epicurean edge.

And for a higher end PM knife, also check out the Tanaka R2:

http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/tanaka.htm