Even My Wife was Shocked

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Smurfmacaw

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Had the opportunity to break down some butternut squash tonight....don't worry, used a german knife to do the hard work. After it was peeled and in reasonable shape I started comparing all the knives I have....I let my wife try the Wustohof (freshly sharpened but still a little thick) on the inside. Hard to cut. Then I let her try the Kato. She doesn't often swear but the first two words out of her mouth was "HOLY ****". That big of a difference! I then used all the Haburns, a Catcheside, and a Shigifusa. Kato was the best so I'll rate it a 10. Shig was second, 9.5. Other makers were unfortunately not so well placed. Haburn performance grind (freshly sharpened) was pretty good, maybe 9.2. Haburn release grind maybe a 9.1 but I give that one an advantage since I think the steel (damascus) was able to take a REALLY sharp edge, much better than the 52100 steel. I've also got a Haburn monosteel 52100 with an unknown grind that cuts well but wasn't in the running (I still really like it). Catcheside was right up there but wasn't freshly sharpened so I will give it some slack....I think it probably performed at about 9.3 as it was but if I touched it up I think it would have held it's own.

I think I am going to do a series of shootouts.....similar knives on a variety of tasks, easy to hard. I was totally floored by the Kato. It's not a super attractive knife....But Dang! can it cut. I've got a number of knives and I'm willing to take suggestions on the tasks to compare. The Kato's performance was so markedly better I'm starting to wonder about what I want....

If you have a Kato you want to sell.....let me know!!! The one I have is only 180mm but dang...

Of note, on edge retention...the Kato is really good as is the shig. The 52100's are a distant second. Ian's damascus blades are way up there but I haven't
really stressed them....more to follow. I think I have finally figured out how to sharpen the tips of knives (thanks Jon) so I don't mind putting them on the stones and don't mind stressing the damascus (expensive) knives so much.

I'll throw my (actually my wife's) Carter funayuki in the mix....not so good edge retention but darn will it get sharp.

Laptop battery getting low.....more to follow.

Mike

Bottom Line - Kato is magic.

Well, and of course if you have a Shigefusa Kitaeji Gyuto in 240 or 270 in good shape (with or without handle) (wa handle preferred) ... have paypal, will travel......

PPS - my Kato is the most vicious knife I own.....I've bled more with it than any other....they are thirsty for blood....three bandaids and one should have had a couple of stitches....love super glue.
 
52100 if properly heat treated in my experience should far outlast both Kato and Shigefusa in regards to edge retention.
I have knives from certain US makers that I get 6-8 months between sharpening in a home environment with regular stropping.
 
I would agree. My Kato is magic. Great performance, great edge retention.

CB1968, which us knife maker are you referring to?
 
Marko, Devin, Burke, Rader all seem to be able to HT 52100 to achieve very good edge holding, 52100 is a great steel if properly treated.
 
Have used kato and shig , well heat treated 52100 will have better edge retention and edge stability than the others to my experience
 
Do yourself a favor pick up something from mert tansu right on par with Bill Burke (yep I said it). If money is a issue I think you would also really enjoy gesshin Heiji. It would be a coin toss between Kato or Heiji if I could only have one.
 
52100 proper treatment knife have better edge retention than Kato in my experience. Cause I need sharp my Kato every two days.
 
Why not use the good knives for that part too? It won't hurt them and it makes the job way easier.
 
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...workhorse-quot?p=384620&viewfull=1#post384620

See post #5 for an answer. Sharpening is fun, grinding out massive chips - not so much. Marc is a pro so I'm sure his knife skills eclipse mine.

I've never had that issue and I have broken down tons of squash with all of my knives, including Katos. I love peeling butternut squash with a good knife, makes the job so easy. Cutting off the top and the bulb shouldn't be an issue and the seeds aren't very hard when halving the bulb. I am sure Marc's knife skills are up to snuff but frankly I am very surprised that happened to him and it will not make me hesitate on what knife to grab next time I take down a case of butternuts.
 
Of note, on edge retention...the Kato is really good as is the shig. The 52100's are a distant second.

In my objective edge retention tests, my 52100 outlasts white #2 by a significant amount of use. If the 52100 blade you got from me is performing as you state I'm happy to replace it. Sent you an email to follow up.
 
Ok,

let me clear some things up. First off, I don't think there is anything wrong with any of my knives - the comment on edge retention is purely subjective. I've got a total of 5 made from 52100 and they all seem the same as far as edge retention. Maybe I sharpen them too steep for that steel, maybe I didn't give a really fair test but what I really didn't want to do was give the impression that I am in ANY way dissatisfied with any of them and especially not the Haburns. I own more of those (4) than any other knife except the shig's (6) and trust me I wouldn't have spent that kind of money if I thought they were anything but top notch.
 
In the defense of Kato, Maksim did tell me he has seen this happen a few times, to where it's almost normal. Reasons being that the metal is super hard and the recent demand for super thin edges makes them a bit more vulnerable to some chipping. In fact, of the 3 western handle Katos I had, the one I ended up keeping (older style, much more thick overal) was the only one that didn't chip. At all. The other 2 did. After I repaired the edge of those 3 larger chips, the knife was much more robust and I certainly felt confident hacking away at acorn squash again.

Which takes me to Kato Defense Point #2: Acorn squash is much more tough/hard than butternut squash.

On a different note, Ian that's one hell of a stand up offer there. And this, my fellow droogs, is one of several reasons why I continue to support Haburn knives. Is Ian the only one who openly backs his product as such? No, there's a few more here, but it's still great to see. Hats off to ya!
 
Josh, I have the latest round of DT ITK 240 AEBL from Devin. For me is still my reference cutter and all around best performing knife I've ever cut with. Every time I use it, it makes me smile. For me its the type of performance that all others are measured by. I might be home this summer, if so ill bring the ITK by Salvage for you to fondle for yourself.

Did Josh post in this thread?
 
It's also worth mentioning that had I used a micro bevel on the Kato, it might have saved the edge from such chip out. I forgot to add that in my earlier post. Thought it worth saying now...
 
That's very good advice, Marc. At the advice of Jon I do that to more knives that are very thin at the edge and/or have large grains.

Also, to aid in getting this thread back on track, it's no secret that white steel (#1 and #2) doesn't have the best edge retention even with proper heat treatment. I think even Carter has said that. But you'd be hard pressed to find a steel you can get sharper. Similar with AEB-L. It's my favorite stainless steel (and I think of many people here) because properly heat treated you can get it so sharp. But there are stainless steels with better edge retention.

But also: I am a home cook and to notice these differences I have to perform dedicated tests. If you sharpen my Suisin Inox honyaki (19C27 stainless steel) up to 10K and then tell me it's AEB-L, I'd immediately believe you. And since I actually like knife sharpening it doesn't matter to me whether I have to take a knife to the stones every two weeks or every few months. I probably don't even notice and I wouldn't be surprised if that applies to more people.
 
I tend to do a group sharpening once every 6 months and just touch up as needed on a 6k stone inbetweeen. Love sharpening but don't want to go through the knives too quickly. Plus the wife doesn't like me leaving my sharpening stuff lying around. So easier to get it out for one big session then pack away. Next house i am going to make a dedicated space for it
 
That's what I'm talking about. Definitely in my next house setting up a dedicated sharpening station
 
That's what I'm talking about. Definitely in my next house setting up a dedicated sharpening station

I don't know about the dedicated sharpening station but I did managed to get allocated two high kitchen cabinet shelves that my wife can't reach. Makes it very convenient since I find rubbing pieces of steel on pieces of rock quite therapeutic.
 

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