Honyaki Mirror Gyuto use and maintenance

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JLaz

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I am literally close to pushing the buy button on a Sukenari Honyaki W#1 Gyuto 270mm.

I've been sharpening my own knives for 2 years now. I'd say that I am pretty decent on the stones. I've been looking for suggestions in a previous thread and personally, it boiled down into seriously considering a Honyaki Mirror-finished gyuto as a prep knife at work. I really dig the history and craft in making the said knives and if there are performance advantages over the usual carbon steel knives, albeit minimal, I am all for the minimal gain. Although, I am a little held back by the assumed maintenance needed to keep the finish in tip-top shape.

Just a little background:
I use and keep my Blue#1 Kasumi Deba and Yanagiba patina free using a simple rust eraser. I work in a low-volume fine-dining restaurant where organization, precision and consistency is much higher regarded than shear speed. Hence, I am fortunate to have a kitchen that allows me to carefully plan all my mise en place at the start of the day, set up my station properly for every task, have ample counter space for any project.

It would really be great to hear from you guys who have more experience using and maintaining these artful tools on the trade. Will it be manageable and would you care to share how you care for your knives?

BTW, I am literally close to pushing the button on a Sukenari Honyaki W#1 Gyuto 270mm
 
I've been told they use radishes dipped in abrasive cleansing powder at the end of a work shift in Japan to keep their knives patina free. I happen to own a mirror polished honyaki, but I tend to polish mine more sporadically. My handel is not epoxied on and the blade can be removed if I truly want to bring it to its full glory. If you wanted to dedicate the time at the end of each day you shouldn't have much of a problem.

Small scratches will still be visible on the blade and it would require more work to remove them, but that's another story.

Edit: the product I use is Flitz as well
 
If you work in such a kitchen, having your own station and space under control, you have ideal conditions for an expensive honyaki.

Maintenance is the same with a monosteel carbon. Just be careful not to drop it on the floor, or hit bones with the tip.
I have hit bones with my Hiromoto honyaki, and it has fallen in the floor flat, not with the tip, fortunately nothing bad happened.
But such incidents are recommended to be avoided, because of the hardness and the brittleness of the honyakis.

I haven't used my Sukenaris so far professionally, because my kitchen is very very busy, speed is very important, and I worry about moist within the yo handles.
I have never worked with yo handles professionally and I am afraid of them. In your case, this does not seem to be a problem, since you are running, but you have full control over your space.

As for polishing it and getting rid of the patina, I use three products:

1. Kanetsune Rust clean KB-402 (metal polish - rust remover)
I had high expectations from this product, since it is made by a knife maker, but I don't recommend it to anyone. It is liquid, and you have to shake well the bottle, prior to use.
It removes patina, but nothing more. It leaves the blade grey with spots, not shine at all! A rust remover gives better shine,but it leaves lines-marks on the blade.
Wish I had never bought this product.

2. Brand: Autosol , product: Chrom Glans. It is a paste. Removes perfectly patina and gives shine, up to a certain degree. Good product.

3. Filtz paste. By far the best product. If you have this, you don't need the above two. Gives perfect shine, removes patina.

Here is a video by Saltydog, showing how he brings back to mirror shine, his Mizuno honyaki. I am not familiar with the products he is using, appart from flitz:

[video=youtube;0TREf5Tejgw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TREf5Tejgw[/video]

Here I have to say, that with the exception of Globals, I am involved with Japanese knives only the last 6-7 years, as in my hometown, you cant find anything, apart from European knives and Globals, and Saltydog, with his videos on the internet and his vast quality collections, in my first years using, searching and trying to get informed around Japanese knives, had been something like a mentor-teacher for me(and Gator the other one). Thank you Salty!!!

Just hit the button and get the Sukenari 27cm. I have a 21cm, a 24cm, and I think these days I will order a 27cm myself as well.
 
I've found when chemical metal polish like Autosol doesn't do the trick anymore, diamond spray on a piece of paper towel works well for thicker built up patina. It will take a good 5 straight minutes of scrubbing though.
 
Autosol is effective, up to a degree. By that I mean that it has never failed to remove my patina, just doesn't give the shine that Blitz does.

Yes, sometimes I use diamond paste as well, with very good results. Gives very good shine, much quicker than 5 minutes.
Probably because paste is more concentrated than the spray
 
bkultra said:
My handel is not epoxied on and the blade can be removed if I truly want to bring it to its full glory. If you wanted to dedicate the time at the end of each day you shouldn't have much of a problem.

Small scratches will still be visible on the blade and it would require more work to remove them, but that's another story.

Edit: the product I use is Flitz as well
Click to expand...

Could you expound on how to remove and replace the handle? I would very much like to do that with my Deba and Yanagiba to hit the maki area better with the eraser.

A little scatches won't bother me, I guess. As long as the patina can be removed whilst keeping the mirror finish (wish normal scratches) sounds fine.

Thank you for sharing!

@supersayan3: Oh, believe me, I've gone through the most online material I could and I've watched the linked video atleast 4 times. I was actually originally considering the mizuno but I think the Sukenari fits better for what purpose the knife will have in my workflow (Thinner, lighter, more nimble tip)

I have to agree that Salty's videos have been very informational and quite entertaining.

jklip13 said:
I've found when chemical metal polish like Autosol doesn't do the trick anymore, diamond spray on a piece of paper towel works well for thicker built up patina. It will take a good 5 straight minutes of scrubbing though.
Click to expand...

What particle size of diamond spray do you use?
 
But if you get too many scratches, you will not have mirror polish in the end.

Better use towel, instead if paper towel.

White 1 feels more aggressive, than white 2, to my understanding
 
supersayan3 said:
But if you get too many scratches, you will not have mirror polish in the end.

Better use towel, instead if paper towel.

White 1 feels more aggressive, than white 2, to my understanding
Click to expand...

Do you use the regular kitchen towel? Or I would think there are good kinds of microfiber-esque type of towels for dedicated use.

When you say aggressive, are you talking about the cutting edge? Reactivity?
 
When I say aggressive, I mean the feeling- feedback I get, of how the knife cuts.

I use regular towel. By that I mean the white IKEA towels, whit the red or blue horizontal and vertical lines.

Not towels like bar towels, which are 'very fat'

Sukenari is not thin at the spine, not very thick as well, but very thin over the edge
 
Ah, thank you for clearing that up. Sounds like a lot of fun!

I think we used those towels back in France. Although we have very similar towels in my current kitchen.
 
I'll still respond to your pm, but I've used flitz on my Sukenari and it works well but doesn't seem to remove the deep patina so it doesn't have its original brilliant mirror finish, I'll try and upload a pic but it's currently packed away until I get my custom handle on. I'm thinking of saving some stone mud next time I flatten to use to polish out the deep set patina.
 
Be careful with stone mud, it will haze up mirror polished steel a fair bit. That's why I suggest diamond paste or spray
 
I think 10k might by a little coarse though I haven't tried it myself. If you look closely, even 1 micron diamond scratches are visible on a really good mirror polish, and that's equivalent to 16000 grit I believe.
 
JLaz said:
Could you expound on how to remove and replace the handle? I would very much like to do that with my Deba and Yanagiba to hit the maki area better with the eraser.
Click to expand...

Marko installed my aftermarket handle w/o using epoxy. If I wanted I could knock it off without much effort and then replace it using bee's wax to hold it in place. He did this with then intention of refinishing the blade.

In regards to feedback... I do find this is one of the major pluses of a honyaki knife . I cant say if white #1 vs white #2 would be noticeable (I don't own a White #1 honyaki to compare)
 
jklip13 said:
I think 10k might by a little coarse though I haven't tried it myself. If you look closely, even 1 micron diamond scratches are visible on a really good mirror polish, and that's equivalent to 16000 grit I believe.
Click to expand...

What diamond spray do you tend to use?



Would really be a good idea if some could share some photos to flaunt their mirror finishes. :)
 
BKF take off any patina in a hurry on my Honyaki but leaves its own that comes off very easely with Fitz.
If you use BKF to remove the patina keep an eye out for interesting alloy banding. It can bring out some interesting things if you use a sponge, light pressure and LOTS of BKF. 10 min of rubbing and your blade might look Damascus.
 
Oh, and how do you guys bring back the mirror finish after some thinning through normal sharpening.
 
JLaz said:
Oh, and how do you guys bring back the mirror finish after some thinning through normal sharpening.
Click to expand...

Hahahah I've never seen any non pros do a half decent mirror polish, in theory it's totally possible, I've just never seen it. The most realistic way most pros do it is with buffing wheels and abrasive compounds
 
Oh, I'm not keeping my hopes up in keeping it a perfect mirror finish. I was thinking along in the lines of a shiny, clean looking finish with a visible hamon line. I've been trying to look for a picture of this but the closest that comes to mind is the look of OOTB mirror blades with uniform micro scratches like how my Takamura Migaki R2 was.
 
You can bring back a mirror polish with some automotive wet/dry sandpaper and micro mesh
 
Thank you for the links!

I wonder what kind of diamond compounds are good to use. Daily use of diamond spray sounds a bit costly.
 
I bought some very cheap ones from Hong Kong, through e-bay. Paste actually, not sprays. They are inside syringes, 5-7 of them, o don't remember-I am at the job now, microns 0.25, 0.5, 1, 1.5, etc.
 
I'm now on Amazon and there are a variety of Flitz products. Looking at Salty's video in a previous reply, the bottle, although not fully revealed, most closely resembles the Flitz 16oz Green Metal Polish bottle.

What Flitz polish do you guys use yourselves?
 
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