Nakiri recommendation

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bonestter

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I would like to try one of these to see if I like them (I know many do, and many do not), but to keep costs down Amazon looks favourite

Here is a first page list for them. Could anyone have a quick butchers and pick one which would be half decent to dip my feet in

THanks very much

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/r...nakiri&keywords=nakiri&ie=UTF8&qid=1452808831

I like the look of the Itto-Ryu , but with postage as well to UK it bumps costings

http://www.**************.com/itryuhana17w.html
 
With Tojiro, I guess you know what you're going to get.

I'd probably be tempted with the sekiryu option at GBP25.16, looks like it's stainless and for 25 quid it's not a great loss.

It looks like the Seki Magoroku KimuHisashi is carbon and only 33 quid.

Personally I'd probably prefer stainless for acidic foods, and wa handle, so the sekiryu for me, but their costs are fairly similar.
With Tojiro you get a somewhat guaranteed quality :)

I'm not sure it's worth over thinking this too much, do you want carbon or stainless, wa or western :)
 
I've used the Wustie. Less than impressed. Used a couple Shun, though not the Kai. They did not suck. Were pricey. The Torijo you know what you're getting Like going to Mickey D's.

Will suggest that a Nakiri can be likened to a sports car. No one needs one but its a fun knife to drive. Don't know that you'll get that experience from a Yugo.
 
daveb said:
Will suggest that a Nakiri can be likened to a sports car. No one needs one but its a fun knife to drive. Don't know that you'll get that experience from a Yugo.
Click to expand...

Agreed.:biggrin:

I'd buy the KAI if you're a decent sharpener (it's a ***** to deburr) but holds it's edge pretty well. Similar to Shun but less $$.
 
The Sane Tatsu one there is a really good deal. Looks like a rebrand of Sakai Takayuki 33-layer hammered Damascus
 
I don't want to overthink this, but I'm thinking I should go 180 as online consensus is it just gets the nod over the 165

Looking at almost all those listed on Amazon they are all 165 :(

There's always something eh?!

Thanks for all your suggestions
 
If you want to go cheap you can always try Robert Herder, carbon version (not the K-lines). I think they can be bought for around 50-60 bucks? Very untraditional, more of a western handle, but at least they are nice and thin good cutters, so it gives you a proper chance to evaluate whether the profile is for you. It's only made in 165 though.
 
Oh hang on, was just about to go for the Sane Tatsu, but that's a single bevel usuba

Thanks Jovidah, will look at the Herders
 
There's bound to be some through Amazon or other retailers as well. Not sure about your location, if you're in the UK getting it straight from Herder might not be attractive postage-wise. Just make sure you get the carbon version. Rostend/nicht rostfrei/Carbon/Carbonstahl is what you're looking for. Rostfrei means stainless.
 
+1 to the Herder. It really is quite a nice knife. Nothing fancy, but thin, good grind, easy to sharpen, although it won't hold that edge terribly long, and comparably inexpensive. Get the carbon one if you don't mind the somewhat higher maintenance.
 
Not sure what the issue is with the Tojiro. I had been using Wusties and wanted to try Japanese knives but didn't want to spend a lot of money. I had purchased three Tojiro DPs and love them...wicked sharp out of the box.. before I bought a Tojiro Nakiri F-502(~$50 from Amazon). Unlike my previous Tojiro's this one needed to be sharpened..easily done..before it was wicked sharp. It's now my go to knife for vegetables.
 
bonestter said:
Oh hang on, was just about to go for the Sane Tatsu, but that's a single bevel usuba
Click to expand...

It is not a single bevel usuba...that's a bit of a misnomer. As you can see on further down on the product page in Q&A:

Is the usuba knife single or double beveled, and if single is there a left handed option?
"Thank you for your question. This knife is double beveled."

For that price, it is quite a steal. The fit & finish is quite decent on these knives (although the spine is a bit sharp, but that's easily fixable), and the grind is thin behind the edge (definitely better geometry than the Tojiro). I also like the balance/weight/feel in hand, based on my experience handling santoku/gyutos from this line (bp is just in front of bolster, weight is a nice medium, not too light, not too heavy). Here you can see the description and more specs but sold under Sakai Takayuki (the edge is described as double-bevel 50/50...I'd actually say 60/40, but whatever it's definitely not a single-bevel knife, and it's also suitable for both right/left-handed users).

http://www.hocho-knife.com/sakai-takayuki-33-layer-vg10-damascus-hammered-vegetable-knife-160mm/
 
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richard said:
It is not a single bevel usuba...that's a bit of a misnomer. As you can see on further down on the product page in Q&A:

Is the usuba knife single or double beveled, and if single is there a left handed option?
"Thank you for your question. This knife is double beveled."

For that price, it is quite a steal. The fit & finish is quite decent on these knives (although the spine is a bit sharp, but that's easily fixable), and the grind is thin behind the edge (definitely better geometry than the Tojiro). I also like the balance/weight/feel in hand, based on my experience handling santoku/gyutos from this line (bp is just in front of bolster, weight is a nice medium, not too light, not too heavy). Here you can see the description and more specs but sold under Sakai Takayuki (the edge is described as double-bevel 50/50...I'd actually say 60/40, but whatever it's definitely not a single-bevel knife, and it's also suitable for both right/left-handed users).

http://www.hocho-knife.com/sakai-takayuki-33-layer-vg10-damascus-hammered-vegetable-knife-160mm/
Click to expand...

Blimey, I was just about to play safe and had my finger in the click of the Tojiro when your post came in :)

Just ordered the Sakai Takayuki (slow boat option only from Japan via Amazon UK)

Thanks Richard, that's yet another time you've helped me decide on a knife buying decision. I've also been eyeballing your sale ;)
 
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Well glad the info was useful and timely. Hope you enjoy the knife!
 
daveb said:
I've used the Wustie. Less than impressed. Used a couple Shun, though not the Kai. They did not suck. Were pricey. The Torijo you know what you're getting Like going to Mickey D's.

Will suggest that a Nakiri can be likened to a sports car. No one needs one but its a fun knife to drive. Don't know that you'll get that experience from a Yugo.
Click to expand...

OK - As I mentioned, I switched from Wusties to Tojiro and the Tojiro's work great for me, so help me understand what I don't know about other Japanese knives. As an analogy, I have a $1500 classical guitar and when I was in Madrid, I went to famous guitar maker's shops, and played $15,000 guitars. I didn't play any better with them, than with my $1500 guitar, perhaps some guitarists would. So, what is it about $500 Japanese knives that I'm missing?
 
Idk about everyone else but I'm against the Tojiro DP nakiri. I've had my Tojiro DP 'damascus' nakiri for about 9 months now and hardly ever use it. As an entry level nakiri, it works fine as a beater but you can certainly get better performing nakiris in that price range or less. I used the Tanaka vg-10 nakiri in the past and for the $60 price range, it is hand over fist better than the $95 price tag I paid for the DP. It might be worth your time to check it out.
 
alfreedo said:
OK - As I mentioned, I switched from Wusties to Tojiro and the Tojiro's work great for me, so help me understand what I don't know about other Japanese knives. As an analogy, I have a $1500 classical guitar and when I was in Madrid, I went to famous guitar maker's shops, and played $15,000 guitars. I didn't play any better with them, than with my $1500 guitar, perhaps some guitarists would. So, what is it about $500 Japanese knives that I'm missing?
Click to expand...

It's called diminishing returns and it's different for each person and each "thing". I like pasta. I've made my own but can't discern a difference between it and decent packaged pasta. So I don't make it anymore. Others can tell a difference and for them homemade is worth the effort.

For a Nakiri I think that the entry level knives are largely made by companies that don't understand what a Nakiri is used for, how it is used or anything else except that it sells. So they make them. And people buy them. And then they don't use them.

In the more expensive realm I've owned an Ealy Nakiri that I did not care for - fine knife but it was more substantive than I liked and it did not dance for me. I've owned a Shig that to me was a little clunky (a 210) and it did not dance for me. Currently I have a Carter and a Watanabe. They dance. They are the reason I own and use a Nakiri.

I don't want to disparage the entry level knives but there is a school of thought that a Gyuto will do anything a Nakiri will. I belong to that school. My suggestion was that a Nakiri is not a knife anyone needs and if you don't value the "dance" then your money would be probably better spent on the more versatile Gyuto. Or a Petty. Or a suji. Or sharpening stuff.
 
daveb said:
It's called diminishing returns and it's different for each person and each "thing". I like pasta. I've made my own but can't discern a difference between it and decent packaged pasta. So I don't make it anymore. Others can tell a difference and for them homemade is worth the effort.

For a Nakiri I think that the entry level knives are largely made by companies that don't understand what a Nakiri is used for, how it is used or anything else except that it sells. So they make them. And people buy them. And then they don't use them.

In the more expensive realm I've owned an Ealy Nakiri that I did not care for - fine knife but it was more substantive than I liked and it did not dance for me. I've owned a Shig that to me was a little clunky (a 210) and it did not dance for me. Currently I have a Carter and a Watanabe. They dance. They are the reason I own and use a Nakiri.

I don't want to disparage the entry level knives but there is a school of thought that a Gyuto will do anything a Nakiri will. I belong to that school. My suggestion was that a Nakiri is not a knife anyone needs and if you don't value the "dance" then your money would be probably better spent on the more versatile Gyuto. Or a Petty. Or a suji. Or sharpening stuff.
Click to expand...

Thank you Dave - I think I understand what you're saying, that it's a personal thing. As I said, for me, I couldn't discern the difference between my $1500 guitar and a $15000 guitar..although I can discern my $1500 guitar from a $150 guitar. For really accomplished players, they might like a $16,000 Conde, but not a $16,000 Humphrey. So, as with guitars, accomplished chefs (and knife aficionados) might like one makers $500 Nakiri, but not an others. Guess I'm not there yet. Maybe I'll get the "bug". By the way, I do use my Toyiro Nakiri more than my Gyuto.
 
I've been using the Sakai Takayuki Nakiri a bit now and so far I quite like it overall, albeit with a caveat (isn't there always)

It's a well produced item. Looks wise very nice, with an uneven tsuchime finish on the upper half of the blade's face is random and not in lines like some, and the 'damascus' lower part is fine.

F&F is fair, with a well fitted dyed pakka wood handle (partial tang), but there are some rough edges around the choil, heel, spine and nose. I'm not going to try and remove them though as they are easily liveable with

The height tapers from the heel which is 47 to 44 in the middle and then a little lower still at the front

Profile is slightly curved throughout with a tiny flatspot toward the rear. The tip is curved so you can rock a bit, and the tip is good going through onions or other tip work

I would say thin (enough) behind the edge with an OOTB edge to shave hair, so pretty sharp. No need to sharpen, although I am looking forward to sharpening as this will be my first VG-10 I can play with on the stones

In use I am liking it. It cuts really well, especially on denser ingredients like carrots. I compared it to my ZKramer 10" Chef's Essentials on carrots and nakiri is the better cutter

Special mention to stiction. It has very little indeed. Wet potato's just drop off 95% of the time. I went from the Kramer to a Konosuke HD (not too fair a comparison I know) and both of them I had to pull the halves off the blade face

Which brings me to the caveat. In use the height at the heel is really too low for my banana fingers and I have noticed knuckle wraps on the board. I can't quite comfortable grip the grip the knife in either a pinch or a racquet and it ends up being somewhwere in-between the two (!) I suppose I should have spotted that, as this nakiri is not especially tall, and I like taller gyuto's (50mm minimum), but as I hadn't handled a nakiri before I wasn't pre-armed with that experience

Grabbing my latest aquisition - Kurosaki AS 240 all was well again. I could do everything that I could with the smaller nakiri, it just took a little adaption time (seconds) and perhaps a little more thought as you have the whole blade to use etc
 
Glad you are mostly enjoying your new nakiri, although with the unfortunate knuckle clearance issue you are having. From my experience, the height/knuckle clearance of that one is pretty typical of nakiris, especially Western handle ones (I think the Tojiro one though would have been around the same or possibly even slightly less clearance).

There are some yo-handled nakiris that are a bit on the taller side, like the one below. Possibly in combination with a slender handle may yield just enough room for larger/thicker fingers.

61FKQzgL9iL._SL1500_.jpg
 
Also I do encourage you to consider sanding the rough edges on the spine and choil as it can greatly add to the comfort of use. While that particular knife is not as ridiculous sharp as some other knives I've come across, it's still noticeable. It is quite easy to take care of, and having done a few knives, it now takes me only ~5 min (though I don't do the entire length of the spine, just about the first 2+ inches or so). A key tip is to protect the blade surface with masking tape to prevent accidental scratches (exposing only a couple mm at the spine/choil), then I wet sand with 400 sandpaper and finish with 600. Optionally you can then do a quick rubbing with Flitz or other metal polish.
 
Thanks Richard, that's all good to know. I will have a go at sanding/touching up

I am enjoying the Nakiri. In fact at he moment I'm enjoying a few of my knives - there's just not enough stuff to cut :)

As for the height, I can pretty much get round everything with an adapted grip
 
richard said:
Also I do encourage you to consider sanding the rough edges on the spine and choil as it can greatly add to the comfort of use. While that particular knife is not as ridiculous sharp as some other knives I've come across, it's still noticeable. It is quite easy to take care of, and having done a few knives, it now takes me only ~5 min (though I don't do the entire length of the spine, just about the first 2+ inches or so). A key tip is to protect the blade surface with masking tape to prevent accidental scratches (exposing only a couple mm at the spine/choil), then I wet sand with 400 sandpaper and finish with 600. Optionally you can then do a quick rubbing with Flitz or other metal polish.
Click to expand...

I have a question for all regarding my Tojiro F-502 Nakiri (actually all my knives). Is there something I can do to keep veggies from sticking to the blade when I slice them?
 
If there is something that can be done to a particular knife that is sticking, I am not aware what an easy fix would be. A knife with a flat grind with the Tojiro will be quite prone to sticking/poor food release. Knives with some convexing will have significantly better food release. Possibly if you had access to a belt grinder or something like that...but at that point I think you'd want to know what you're doing or someone who does helping you with that, and that wouldn't strike me as an easy DIY job.
 
Found it! :)

Watanabe Professional Kurouchi

Received it this morning from a BST here :)

I have been using the Sakai Takayuki and quite happily I must say, but always struggled with its height (at a mere 47 at heel to 44 mid) and it seemed just a little too short in length

I am 6'4" with fingers like banana's so how can this style knife built for a slighter Japanese hand still work?

The Watanabe is 180 long and 56mm high :) Mine measures 174 from tip to heel and 59mm at heel and mid way, sloping off after that a little

Blue core stainless cladded with nice rigded wooden handle

Man does this thing chop veg! It just cries faster and it's so easy to control the cut while going flat out

While I realise it is early days and I'm gushing, I compared it to the Sakai and the Watanabe really does blow it away

I have cut some wet potatoes and the blade falls through on its own weight

The curved 'tip' lends to some rocking

I am making risotto later so looking forward to that

P1050523.JPG
 
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