French Carbon Steel Steak Knives From Au Sabot

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've been thinking about buying wooden plates for serving steak so that I can let my guests use decent knives without worrying about them wrecking a carefully tuned edge on ceramic. My initial thought is to buy japanese carbon steel petty knives, but I'm considering other alternatives. Even relatively cheap carbon steel will hold a razor sharp edge for quite a while on wooden plates. In fact, I'll bet that a carbon steel opinel will hold an edge longer on wooden plates than a perfectly heat treated tamahagane or blue #1 blade will on ceramic plates.

Given that a decent petty is going to run ~$100, and I need 6 of them, I'm considering going with a less expensive carbon steel knife. The obvious choice is the opinel 102, a 4" carbon steel paring knife, or maybe an old hickory paring knife, but I'm considering some knives from Au Sabot. The opinel 102 is well known for taking and holding a wicked edge, so it seems plausible that Au Sabot, a small family run knife making firm in Thiers, France, should be able to make a decent knife. Based on the pictures I've seen, they sure look good. On their webpage it looks like they're using xc75 steel, which is 0.75% carbon which I'm guessing is comparable to 1075 steel and is a step down from the xc90 in an Opinel. I'd like a bit more carbon but depending on the heat treatment it might be decent. Here are some pics of 2 different styles.

They're both around $12-$13 each; if they take and hold a decent edge, it'll be hard to resist if only to give as a gift.

Has anyone ever used a knife from Au Sabot or use an xc75/1075 carbon steel?

If you're considering Opinel you might also consider their actual line of table knives. I have the ones in olive wood. It's not carbon but the Sandvik steel is pretty good as well and they come with a straight edge. I guess the main downsides are that the handles are a tad skinny and the blade could be more substantial. They cut great though and at least they're a bit longer than the 102 & 112 (those would feel a bit too short as a steak knife for me).

I've heard great things about the Opinel Bon Appetit line I think you're referring to. They use 12C27 stainless which is by all accounts a pretty serviceable steel that's easy to heat treat. For me, they aren't quite as good looking as the Au Sabot's though, but the price is the same.

Still they're great bang for the buck at $13.00 a piece, lower maintenance steel. You raise a good point about the extra blade length as well. I'll definitely keep these on my short list.

Yes it's the Bon Appetit line. Personally I'm wasn't too thrilled about all the coloured handles until I found the olive ones. The handles come well-treated (much better than the pocket knives). But yeah definitly a different style; as I said they are a bit on the slender side, so they don't give you this "Look at me with my big badass steak knife"-vibe. Admittedly ease of maintenance and price factored into my decision; I bought 4 of them for 25 bucks (even at full price they're just 10 bucks a piece).
Personally I'm not sure I'd go for carbon with a table knife; I'm the kind of person who doesn't feel like cleaning up straight away after dinner... :angel2:

Both of the Au Sabot knives above come in stainless steel versions as well, but I think they use x50cd14, which I don't think is particularly good steel.

I ordered the two knives above yesterday afternoon in both carbon steel and the stainless from a website in France; there aren't any Au Sabot distributors in North America. 24 hours later I haven't received any acknowledgement that I actually ordered anything. I guess I've been spoiled by instant emailed receipts and parcel tracking info. I don't want to be a pest since I'm sure they rarely ship to the US; I don't know whether to check in or give it a few days...

It's the French... their internet is still in the 90's.

The French invented MiniTel, which predates the Internet and it is still in usage...

Zweber12 said:

The French invented MiniTel, which predates the Internet and it is still in usage...

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I'm not knocking the French, if anything it's the opposite. I was first smitten by those two knives 2-3 years ago but until now I couldn't find anyplace online that would sell them to the US. I've been spoiled by Amazon.com and 2-day prime, but I don't mind a bit of extra work and patience for something that's worth waiting for

Zweber12 said:

The French invented MiniTel, which predates the Internet and it is still in usage...

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Maybe they're still using it? I mean I don't want to knock the French but most company & e-commerce websites I ever visited did feel rather dated. Even a famous shop like Dehillerin has a webpage that feels rather wabi-sabi... Admittedly it doesn't say anything about the quality of the products sold.

Minitel services have ended mid-2012.
XC75 or C75 is a finely grained carbon steel, containing 0.7-0.8% carbon and about the same amount of manganese. Used by all European makers of carbon steel kitchen knives, K-Sabatier, Thiers-Issard, Robert Herder. Takes a crazy edge and sharpens very easily. Abrasion resistant is of course very low, edge retention average. Great candidate for a microbevel. Will benefit from a high polish.

Yippee! I guess I did buy these knives after all. There was a box from France on my doorstep when I got home today. I can't wait to get a look at these babies. :knife: All I need to see is a box with customs stamps on my doorstep and suddenly I'm a kid on Christmas!

They look even better in person. They're definitely rustic, but that's what I wanted. The handles and bolster are clearly shaped and finished by hand on a belt sander which is gives them a great deal of charm. The question is whether or not they'll take and hold a decent edge!

Benuser said:

XC75 or C75 is a finely grained carbon steel, containing 0.7-0.8% carbon and about the same amount of manganese. Used by all European makers of carbon steel kitchen knives, K-Sabatier, Thiers-Issard, Robert Herder. Takes a crazy edge and sharpens very easily. Abrasion resistant is of course very low, edge retention average. Great candidate for a microbevel. Will benefit from a high polish.

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You weren't kidding about the xc75! What an edge! The yatagan was a tricky shape for me on the stones given compound curve in the belly of the blade, but I gave it a go on my Shapton Pro 1500, Shapton Pro 8000, and finished with chromium oxide charged strop. It took a decent edge, but ironically I found that it took an absolutely screaming edge with just a few swipes of my fine idahone diamond rod hone where the blade shape is less of an issue. After the idahone, it was 10 more seconds on the strop and it was hair popping sharp. It's just as well because for 8 steak knives, I'd rather get a great edge in 10 seconds than a perfect one in 10 minutes

I had less luck with the stainless steel versions which is unfortunate. All 3 knives came pretty dull out of the box. I could barely get a shaving edge on either stainless knife no matter what I did. I'll chalk the yatagan up to a tricky shape and inadequate sharpening skills, but the straight edge parer shown on top is a dead easy shape to sharpen. I've never had more trouble getting an edge on any knife, and I'm still not satisfied. Maybe I'll try again in the morning.

No matter, I'm so pleased with the carbon yatagan (pictured at the bottom) that the two SS versions don't bother me a bit. For $13, I can't imagine a better edge, or a better looking steak knife. Now I just need to get that wooden steak plate from Justenbois and I'll be in business!

What kind of stainless is it? Average German X50 etc.?

Benuser said:

What kind of stainless is it? Average German X50 etc.?

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Yup. The steel for the stainless knives is X50. I'm can't really blame the steel though, I'm sure my technique is more to blame. I'm having a hard time putting a shaveworthy edge on the opinel 112 paring knife that also arrived yesterday and its 19c27, so it should take a very nice edge.


I'm a little disappointed that it's not better steel, but I admire that Au Sabot at published the steel they used on their webpage. Here is the google translation:

50 X CD 14
Chemical analysis 14% chromium
0.50% carbon
0.25% molybdenum
Food stainless steel - used for knives and cooking offices

Well, I figured out what my problem was. I was using too much pressure. The opinel 112 and the Au Sabot are paper thin paring knives, with a spine that's only 1.5mm at it's thickest point. It's also very flexible steel. When I dropped the pressure down to just a little more than the weight of the blade, things improved. The opinel 112 parer with the Sandvik 19c27 took on a much nicer edge; it's not as sharp as my Tojiro DP VG10 120mmm petty, or even the Au Sabot carbon yatagan, but it's quite good.

The stainless steel Au Sabot's are different story though, even dropping the pressure made little difference. No matter what I do, I can't get them really sharp. They'll happily cut paper, but struggle to shave arm hair. It could still be a technique issue, but I'm starting to think the steel just can't take a shaving sharp edge.

shaving is not the same as cutting food.

Just for your information: the Opinel is made of Sandvik's 12C27Mod, a finely grained steel. 19C27 is a bit coarser, is much more abrasive resistant and harder to sharpen.
About your soft stainless: if it is comparable to the common German stuff, don't look for any refinement. I use a Naniwa Professional (AKA Chosera) 400 as a one and only and deburr with a green Scotch pad.

panda said:

shaving is not the same as cutting food.

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Good point. The reason I bring up shaving is to give context to how keen of an edge they will take, and since they will serve duty exclusively as steak knives, they will essentially be slicers. The best slicing knives I've used have had thin blades that get razor sharp. I figure that if it will shave, it'll slice.

The carbon steel Au Sabot will take a shaving sharp edge with literally 3 swipes on a 600 grit idahone ceramic rod. I can't get the Au Sabot stainless knives anywhere close to that sharp after an hour of experimenting with angles, stones, and pressure. Since the carbon yatagan and ss yatagan have identical blade shape, blade thickness, and grinds, that makes the carbon version a winner for me. Since I'll be using them on wooden plates, the carbon steel should hold up nicely (they wouldn't keep an edge on ceramic plates as well as SS).

@Benuser: You were right again of course. What worked the best for me for this steel was the 600 grit idahone rod (the only stone I have below 1000 is a DMT diamond plate). It also helped when I raised the angle up to 20-25 degrees, 10-15degrees was asking way too much of this steel. It's not a great edge, but they would still be the sharpest knives in most people's drawer.

Thanks for all your help!

Since this little guy will be doing duty almost exclusively on medium rare steaks, it seemed like I should probably just bite the bullet and force a patina so my wife wouldn't panic the first time we use them and the steak "ruins them". Because of the shape of the blade, only the front half would contact the steak and rapidly develop a dark patina, and the back half of the knife would stay light gray, which would look weird to most folks.

I played around with some mustard and a sponge first. Next I decided to put a deeper, more even patina over the top of that so I opted for a a boiling vinegar forced patina. In 60 seconds it gave me a cool iridescent patina that reminds me of rainbow trout (which it will probably also do duty on). I decided to go about 60 seconds more and take it darker. Boiling vinegar works fast! It will go as dark as gun bluing in about 5 mins. The boiling vinegar applied with a cotton ball and tweezers took on a crazy dark bluish-gray that I'm smitten with. I love the classic lines of this handmade yatagan, and to my eye it looks like it could easily have graced a table a century ago. This may look terrible to everyone else, but I love the patina on this little guy now. If nothing else, it has a protective patina that's ready for steak.







Here is a pic of it from a few nights ago with it's stainless steel siblings...

i really like dark patina, i wish there was an easy way to get all my knives gunmetal color.

panda said:

i really like dark patina, i wish there was an easy way to get all my knives gunmetal color.

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Let them stay in hot, strong coffee for some time.
But they will need sharpening afterwards. And degrease before.

Boiled vinegar works well too. It will take a blade to a uniform gunmetal blue in 5 mins. Degrease with acetone. Boil vinegar in a saucepan, dip cotton ball or rag in boiling vinegar with tweezers and wipe the blade, keep doing it till you've got the color you want. You can go all the way to gunmetal blue in a hurry.

I like coffee approach, I had never heard of that one. It probably smells a lot better than boiled vinegar! How long does it take? Do you need to submerge it or can you brush it?

Submerging works faster than dabbing as the liquid's temperature will stay much higher. With dabbing though you can clean immediately the very edge and avoid dulling.

I did a hot vinegar bath on a Tanaka blue#2 before and it left a really rough finish which created a lot of drag when cutting. Any way to avoid that or does all soft iron cladding react that way? Will mono steel be rough after as well?

I ask because I want to try the coffee method on a Takeda that had its Ku stripped.

After cleaning a mono-steel should be smooth. Rough parts are likely to be rust.

The Au Sabot Yatagan is smooth as a babies bum, but it's a monosteel though.

@Ben User: Good point about being able to keep a higher temp with submerging vs dabbing. With a tiny 100mm knife like mine, just repeatedly dipping and wiping with a cotton ball was enough to keep the blade piping hot. A cottonball certainly wouldn't work on a gyuto! I can't think of anything I have in cupboard that's tall enough to submerge gyuto in. I was thinking maybe for a gyuto I'd use a turkey baster to keep a steady stream of vinegar to keep the temp up. What do you use to boil vinegar and submerge a gyuto in?

As far as keeping the edge intact while submerging, I wonder if it would work "cut" 2mm of the cutting edge through a bid pool of superglue (or any generic cyanoacrylate), let it dry, and then do the submersion. The thin film of superglue might protect the cutting edge from vinegar. After the submerging was done, the superglue would come off with a few swipes of an acetone soaked rag. You'd already have an acetone rag out from having done the degreasing prior to dipping anyway, so it wouldn't be much of a an extra step. Certainly quicker than resharpening!

I'm considering taking the Au Sabot all the way blue. If I do, I'll test out the "Superglue Edge Guard" technique described above. It probably won't work but it's worth a shot. :bbqsmoker:

Have only used submersion with short blades so far, same problem here.

I just tried coffee patina and like the results. If I reduce the coffee will it be more effective? I want it dark as possible.