Which santoku, first "real" knife

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Calla969

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Hi all, brand new to the forum. I'm in the market for a nice, Japanese santoku knife. I'm tired of using junk. I want something that looks nice, but function is more important. My wife and I both really like the santoku style, so that's what we're looking at. I want something that's relatively easy to maintain, and has high edge retention. My budget is under $200, preferably around $150. Currently, I'm looking at the Afikusa and Miyabi brands. Every time I think I've made up my mind, I find something else. The issue I have with the Afikusa is the handle. I'm not sure if I like the Japanese style and the western style just looks like a cheap steak knife to me. I really like the handle on the Miyabi. Can anyone offer any assistance?
 
Just one quick question; are you sure you definitely want a santoku as your first "real" knife?
 
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Santoku: great knives, why not? Don't submit to gyuto tyrrany!
 
How about the Hiromotos off Japanesechefsknife ? Around $100, free shipping worldwide. Aogami super stainless clad with a western handle
 
Be ready for plenty of people trying to steer you towards a gyuto instead of a santoku. I used a santoku for 10 years and was happy with it. Most likely you haven't been exposed to Japanese style knives and their "Wa" or stick handles so they seem foreign. That misgiving quickly goes away and you don't really notice it. I would like to suggest you look at the santokus offered by Japanese Knife Imports. Specifically I'd seriously consider the Kochi 180mm Kurouchi santoku. I know it's a little over your budget, but it probably would last you for decades if properly cared for. One thing this means is Do Not Put In The Dishwasher!!!!! There's plenty of other do's and don'ts, but that's a biggie.
 
I really like the santoku style. I have a pretty nice western style chef's knife made by Eagle River Knives (Alaskan hand made knife). I NEVER use it, the gyuto style looks similar. I'll have a look at some of the other suggestions. I'm going to order something on Friday, so I have a few days to think about it. Any particular reasons to eliminate the brands I mentioned?
Thanks for the help!
 
I would second the Kochi recommendation from 99limited, though I would probably recommend the stainless clad vs. the straight kurouchi if you are worried about maintenance. It is $225 vs. $210 for a 180 santoku, but a damn good knife.

Personally I am waiting on the 210 kurouchi wa-gyuto to be restocked.
 
There is a "which knife?" questionnaire at the top of this forum. If you'll fill it out you will get responses tailored to your requirements.

And don't pay any attention to any-sayers on the Santoku, they are marvelous knives and I'm sure your wife will love it.
 
Most of the gyutos that I prefer have santo-esque profiles. The Toyama for instance. But please, let's continue to demean new members by comparing them to women for their preferred knife choices. Very forward thinking:D
 
nothing wrong with a santoku imo :D all depends what you are looking for. The hiromoto on jck are great value and free shipping as well i think... I love my hiromoto honyaki santoku.
 
brainsausage said:
But please, let's continue to demean new members by comparing them to women for their preferred knife choices.
Click to expand...

It's all in jest, but I'm sorry Calla if it came across as demeaning, no offense intended. Santoku are of cause great knives, but I find that they do everything slightly less well than a gyuto.
 
I would suggest to consider the TESSHU Santoku 165mm Blue II steel at aframestokyo.com. It is in your budget ($145), the quality is superb, my experience with the vendor has been superb and i love the knives of this line. Blue Ii has great edge retention although it needs care since it is not stainless.
 
Have you had a chance to handle any Japanese knives in person so far?
 
Kurosaki AS santoku. I don't recommend his R2 line but supposedly his AS stuff has better geometry. Should have good edge holding and is an easy-to-maintain design.
CKTG also has an OEM knife branded "itto ryu"...the santoku in their series is a very strong performer and is a fantastic value.

Takamura red-handled santoku is a winner if you want something pretty thin with very good edge holding.
 
A lot depends on the way you plan to maintain your knife. If you're comfortable using waterstones for sharpening, you might look at a Blazen http://epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=85483. They're a little above the top of your price point, but get really good reviews. I have a santoku from the same manufacturer that's fancied up some, but I would expect the performance to be similar. Great little cutter, although it WILL chip if you do things like cut an apple and hit the seeds. I've found it pretty easy to sharpen, tho.
 
Nothing wrong with Santoku's, just a shorter version of more traditional Japanese drop nose gyuto's. Good for push cuts and chopping in tight spaces. You have a lot of choices in the 200.00 range just a few

Gesshin Gonbei JKI nice looking blade with user friendly steel and grind 155.00
Syousin Chiku Ku Santoku 170mm Aogami Super core, stainless clad rosewood octagon handle Knives and Stones 153.00
Tojiro HSPS 170mm F-517 Knives and Stones 134.00
 
If you're partial to Miyabi, at Cutlery and More they have promo discount on their exclusive Miyabi Mizu line. Pretty good deal for a well-finished and good looking santoku, and made with SG2 steel (very good edge retention).
 
Thanks for all the suggestions! There are so many choices, it's overwhelming. I'm sure I could get a $60 Tojiro DP and I'd be happy wit it because it would be so much better than what I'm used to. But I want something nice that will last. I've looked at all of the recommendations and now I feel like I'm back at square one with no idea what to get. I've seen several Guyotous that I like and I understand that they may be a better style, just not sure what will work best for me.

To answer a few questions that have come up in the thread:
I do plan to do my own sharpening. I always have and will continue. I've always used diamond "stones", but plan to purchase 1000 and 6000 grit waterstones and learn to properly use them. I also was planning to get a nice ceramic honing rod, but I'm not sure if that's the proper thing to use to maintain these hard steel knives. Any recommendations there would be great.

I have a pretty small kitchen with small work spaces, that might be why I've been happy with the santoku style. I'm not a gourmet chef, but I enjoy cooking good food and I really appreciate a high quality, SHARP knife. I'm (or my wife) typically just cook for ourselves and our 2 kids. Usually nothing fancy.

I've never used a true Japanese knife. I've owned several "Bed Bath and Beyond quality" santoku knives by Henckel (lower end) and similar brands. I've held a Miyabi at a local store, it's the only place I've found that has anything Japanese at all and that's the only brand they have. Unfortunately, I'll have to buy sight unseen.

I use a maple cutting board, I only hand wash my knives, never put them in the dishwasher.

Here are some of the knives I've been considering (before all of the great suggestions from here).
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/miyab...gyhHrXwKtjbHj5hM0Zmhl72IZqbXF8CQBCRoCQiTw_wcB
http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=93724
 
If possible, I would suggest that you give a gyuto a go. Even if you do decide to spend most of your budget on a santoku, it would probably be worthwhile to pick up a Tojiro DP gyuto so that you can try the gyuto profile.

This may be due to my own incompetence, but while I fully prep most meals with only a gyuto, it's rare that I prep a full meal with only a santoku. If I need to peel potatoes I can do so with the tip of the gyuto, but if I'm using a santoku then I'll reach for a parer. If I need to slice meat, the gyuto can handle it fine, but if I'm using the santoku then I'll reach for a slicer.

Would you ever want to break down chickens, trim or carve meats or peel vegetables with this knife?
 
I have a nice boning knife that I usually use for breaking down chickens or separating baby back ribs, I typically don't use mu santoku for anything with bones. I don't do much vegetable peeling at all. If I do, I usually just use a peeler. Most of the veggies I eat are with skin on. I usually use the knife for prepping meat, cubing chicken breasts, portioning fish, slicing and dicing veggies, and mincing garlic. I have a 14" and a 10" knife. I think they're called a skinning knife. They are more of a commercial style knife made by Tramontina, but the nicer ones with wood handles. They are very sharp and I use them when cutting very large fish fillets, like tuna or a large roast.

I'm sure that after reading my description, you will be even more insistent that I try a Gyuotou. I'm sure you guys are far more knowledgeable than I, that's why I came here for advice. I'm not going to ignore you just because it isn't what I think I want. What would you recommend in a Gyuotou that fits my budget, retains an edge, and looks like a nice piece?

I'm willing to listen, especially if it makes me more manly :cool2:

Thanks!

What do you think about this one?
http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=90904
Or this one?
http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=91019
 
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If you want as you say something easy to maintain a full on carbon blade needs more special care esp. home use to keep them from rusting. Not always the case but women usually prefer stainless my better half will not touch my carbon blades.

If you get a Gyuto would suggest a 210mm, think you are on the right track looking at quality stainless.
 
I'm not the most knowledgable on this so please correct me if I'm spewing verbal excrement, but:

In my experience the choice between a gyuto and a santoku depends mostly on personal preference, mediated by your cutting style and available space on your cutting board.

As for me, I always used a more 'western' style of cutting where you rock the knife while keeping the tip on the board, making this movement that sort of resembles a crankshaft (to illustrate: http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/draftknife-skills-the-three-basic-knife-cuts.html they call it the slice). Personally I found this a bit more awkward with a santoku because they are shorter. But you do need a bit more space. With a 21 cm gyuto I wouldn't do this on anything that is less than 10 inches deep (and bigger is nicer).

If you're more of a person who chops in a straight up and down movement, a santoku might be just the thing for you, as they usually have nice flat profiles (not so much curve to the blade) and the shorter blade makes them a tiny bit more nimble. Also, because you only use the blade straight up and down you can get away with a bigger board. But here as well you will find that a bigger board will make you a faster and more efficient cutter.

I concur with the 21 cm recommendation if you go with a gyuto if this is your first gyuto / full-size chef knife. Most people here tend to prefer a 240mm but that's usually after using (and getting used to) a 210mm for a while.
 
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