Sharpening Stone Sets Any Good?

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RubbishCook

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I am looking to learn to sharpen my own knives and EE has a nice "ChefsSteps" set and I am wondering what people think of it. http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=91905

Are there other sets you would recommend or would I be better off buying individual stones? Lastly, I saw a set from CKTG that comes with a practice knife. Do I need a practice knife? I have some old Global knives that I could practice on but I rather not ruin anything.
 
as previously posted and with all credit to ThEoRy:

The easy answer is:
Beston 500
Bester 1200
Suehiro Rika 5K

The more deluxe solution would be a Gesshin set up from Japanese Knife Imports:
Gesshin 400
Gesshin 1000 XL
Then anything Gesshin in the 4K-6K range.

You could also just get the Gesshin 400 and then the 1k/6k combo stone.

Of course you will need a flattening solution. Jon also sells a diamond plate for $65.

This all depends upon your budget of course.
 
More of a question than an answer, but: I've seen the Ohishi stones in other places. Anyone know about them and what they're like? Are they an original producer or is it just another 'brand' that doesn't make their own stones?
 
What do I get from the more deluxe stones?

How does the EE set (#220, #1000, #3000/8000 combo stone) compared to the CKTG set that was described (Beston 500, Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000)?

The EE one seems to have more variety but I don't know if 220 would be too aggressive.
 
I'm not a fan of Togo and will leave it at that. And so not a fan of the Bestor 500, always too dry or too wet, no sweet spot. No feedback. Dished like a bastard. I know it works for some people but not for me. Had to give mine away.

So what's a guy to do? Buttermilk sells the Bester 1200 and the Suehiro 5K for same price as Togo. And Sam is a supporting vendor of this site. http://www.buttermilksupply.com/browse/sharpening/ Keep your money on the reservation.

For a coarse stone I like the Gesshin 400 a lot and have a slight preference for the JNS 300. You won't use a coarse stone often (hopefully) and either of these could be forever stones.

Can't offer any comment on the EE stones as I'm not familiar with them.

Good luck.
 
RubbishCook said:
What do I get from the more deluxe stones?

How does the EE set (#220, #1000, #3000/8000 combo stone) compared to the CKTG set that was described (Beston 500, Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000)?

The EE one seems to have more variety but I don't know if 220 would be too aggressive.
Click to expand...

First doubts would be quality of stone. Very easy to rebadge something made with little quality control... And there are plenty of stones out there that are poorly manufactured; inconsistent grits, overly soft etc. If you don't know what you're looking for you need plenty of reviews. Sets are fine, most of my sharpening (both knives and woodworking tools) is done with a King/Ice Bear 800/6000 kit (have a Tormek water wheel for rough work, although I never use it on knives), but you need to know who's making it and what people think of it.

I mean that with reference to the EE stones, with the others daveb's post would tell you much more.
 
I've never purchased anything from EE I was unhappy with. Satisfied customer based on actual use. I wouldn't presume EE is selling inferior stones as his house set without personally trying them. I've used and gifted on if their combo stones. That being said, the Bestor 1200 and the Rika are fine stones. I have a Beston 500 that doesn't get a whole lot of use for the reasons mentioned above, but it serves the purpose at the price point.
 
I personally think a 220 pink brick or similar low grit stone should be in your set. You may not need it for regular maintenance but any time you need to thin out a knife or to modify a profile or fix a tip, you will be very glad you have a rough stone in your arsenal. I don't have a very good impression of the Beston/Bester brand as I've had the worst waterstone experience with Bester 700. It simply did not want to cut. The Gesshin 1k/6K with a pink brick should be a great set. Don't forget to include a diamond plate for flattening. My working set is the 220 pink brick, Shapton Glasstone 500, Shapton Pro 2000, Gesshin 6k splash n go and a diamond plate.
 
I agree in the above conserning the Beston 500, and I would like to add: it is a terrible stone. Needs water every five strokes and it gives terrible feedback. I really hate mine. I only use it for fixing broken tips.
Reg. stones: don´t forget JNS. He had some stone(s) on sale resently - maybe still does. I really recommend the JNS 300. It doesn´t need soaking and holds water well during use.
I generally would recommend buying stones from JNS. You can have a setup of three really good stones: 300, 1000 and 6000 that doesn´t need soaking. He has free shipping on an order like that.
- Kim
 
KimBronnum said:
I agree in the above conserning the Beston 500, and I would like to add: it is a terrible stone. Needs water every five strokes and it gives terrible feedback. I really hate mine. I only use it for fixing broken tips.
Reg. stones: don´t forget JNS. He had some stone(s) on sale resently - maybe still does. I really recommend the JNS 300. It doesn´t need soaking and holds water well during use.
I generally would recommend buying stones from JNS. You can have a setup of three really good stones: 300, 1000 and 6000 that doesn´t need soaking. He has free shipping on an order like that.
- Kim
Click to expand...

:plus1:
 
I haven't bought any stones yet but I signed up for Japanese water stone sharpening class. The sad thing is I bought a Tojiro DP 210mm to practice on and it's sharper than my two other much more expensive Japanese knives, a 120mm Yoshikane petty (SKD) and a 210mm Azai Hyabusa (Blue Super).

Maybe I should being the Yoshi and Azai to the class and leave the Tojiro at home.
 
I will bring both but I don't want to sharpen the Azai yet. Hopefully I will get a better understanding of the stones I want since the prices are all over the place.

It's interesting that Carter recommends a King 1000 and 6000 which is a relatively inexpensive pair.
 
RubbishCook said:
It's interesting that Carter recommends a King 1000 and 6000 which is a relatively inexpensive pair.
Click to expand...

That's pretty interesting, yes. But I know some people who like the King 6000, have it hear myself (was my very first "finish" stone). I'd call it quite "beginner friendly"... ok, you have to soak it and so on but then it's quite smooth and soft (and muddy), which some people like.

Personally I don't use it anymore, I think the Imanishi Bester, Naniwa Chosera and JNS stones are much better but preferences are different...
 
I am just hoping I don't end up collecting sharpening stones. If I can find something that works well for me hopefully I wont want to try others (...wishful thinking for sure).
 
The King stones aren't horrible, but there are better ones out there. No cheaper waterstones though. The 6000 is a splash and go, always has been so far are I know, and if the binder was harder on the 1000 I think it would be much more highly regarded. They will do a decent job of sharpening, and will definitely teach you to use a light hand....

They will wear very quickly with very hard steel and don't cut it all that well, I think the grit rolls off too fast. Fine for carbon steel and "normal" Japanese stainless, if very messy.

Peter
 
The Naniwa specialty / sharpening series are the new iteration of the super stones. Generally considered great for shaving but rather on the soft side for knives. Some like them, but quite a lot of people don't.
Also, the specialty stones are a false economy; they might look cheap but they're only 10mm thick... So you won't get much mileage out of them. Also, I've already read some reviews about them bending and breaking easily because they're so thin.

So I don't know what Bob Kramer uses, but it wasn't these. The Bob-Kramer branded stones sold by Zwilling look to be Shapton glass stones.

Between the Naniwa specialty set and the Gesshin's... I'd certainly go for the later, even if only because the Specialty stones are a rip-off. If you really want splash & go stones, Jon should have a line-up of those as well I think.
 
Jon's 1 and 6K diamond plates may be the ultimate S&G solution. They cost a little more up front but it's a one and done purchase. And price only hurts for a little bit. As mentioned above JKI also offers more traditional stones in S&G. And his soakers are among my favorites.

Maxim also has some nice S&G stones that merit consideration in any stone discussion. With a 1K and synthetic Aoto you'll meet the free shipping threshold (going on memory here) and have a couple nice stones as well.

Have tried the Naniwa/Chosera/Insert reseller here lines and did not find the love.
 
Jovidah said:
The Naniwa specialty / sharpening series are the new iteration of the super stones. Generally considered great for shaving but rather on the soft side for knives. Some like them, but quite a lot of people don't.
Also, the specialty stones are a false economy; they might look cheap but they're only 10mm thick... So you won't get much mileage out of them. Also, I've already read some reviews about them bending and breaking easily because they're so thin.

So I don't know what Bob Kramer uses, but it wasn't these. The Bob-Kramer branded stones sold by Zwilling look to be Shapton glass stones.

Between the Naniwa specialty set and the Gesshin's... I'd certainly go for the later, even if only because the Specialty stones are a rip-off. If you really want splash & go stones, Jon should have a line-up of those as well I think.
Click to expand...

Sorry I meant this set:

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/3-Stone-Naniwa-Sharpening-Stone-Kit-P562C97.aspx

They are twice as thick as the specialty ones for $30 more. Kramer sells super stones and chosera on his website and I am pretty sure that I read that he uses Naniwas himself.
 
This may sound silly, but you are not Bob Kramer. Hence, what works for Bob Kramer might not work for you... don't stare yourself blind at what a certain knife maker is using. If you ask 10 knife makers you're bound to end up with a whole bunch of answers. Ask Murray Carter and you'll be going home with the King stones. Some use diamonds, some use the Bester/Suehiro combo, some use Naniwa Chosera, some use a system with belts and polishing paste... well you get the point.

Regarding the Sharpening Stone series. They're still comparable to the super stones. Which are completely different stones than the Chosera stones (which are now called Naniwa professional).
I haven't used them personally but know not everyone who used them for knives was too happy about them, and most people consider the Chosera/Pro better stones.

One test that might be of help:
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=672
Just keep going towards newer posts to see the other parts, there's at least 4 parts. It shows some of the weaknesses of the super-stone.

Minor problems with that test though is that it doesn't include any of the Suehiro stones, nor does it include the Ohishi stones you were looking at. Not sure if any of the Gesshin stones are in that test, but I don't think so.
But at least it might give you some idea about the Naniwa stones and what things are all about.

Personally I doubt Naniwa's really give you your money's worth in the US because they're rather overpriced there. Much of the alternatives are a lot cheaper, or at least give you a lot more stone for your money. Superstones might look cheap but you burn through them a lot faster, as you can see in those tests.
 
Thanks for the info.

I can spend a lot of money on a knife because I have some understanding of how it works and what I like and if I end up with one I don't like then I can just resell it for a small loss (or no loss if it's hard to get) but with these stones I have no idea what I like because I only have a couple of hours with a $80 combo splash and go stone.

Do I spend $340 on the Gesshin set (+ diamond plate and holder) and hope that it's perfect for me or do I spend $190 on the Togo's complete set with the two Bestons and Suehiro Rika and risk feeling like I want to upgrade later? Then there is the Edge Pro Apex option which is still cheaper than the Gesshin set.

I am not convinced that this will be a hobby for me but I want to take care of my knives as best I can with the least amount of effort and outlay.
 
I would look at it from different angle. First of all - while it makes sense to get a 'starter' knife when you enter the world of Japanese kitchen knives to get the idea what it is going to be about and not to get too upset if you either chip it, or use it to learn sharpening. However - when it comes to stones it makes little sense to try to get 'starter' stones and invest again a couple of months later.

The question is - do you have any experience with Japanese sharpening stones that would give you an idea what kind of stone you LIKE to use. Some stones are softer, muddier and will dish faster, other are harder, feel less 'soft' when sharpening and dish slower. Muddy stones make it easier to put a nice finish on bevels because of the mud. But that is far from all.

Then there is the obvious choice between splash & go stone and soaking stones. Here - apart from the obvious (the soaking stones need some 15 minutes soaking prior they will be used) - the drying time is quite different too. About a day for S&G and several days (3-5) for soaking stones.

I have used & use Gesshin and JNS stones and even though I am far from expert on sharpening and far from having hands-on experience with all of the stones in question (that is basically impossible - Jon has about 20 stones in his lineup today) I got some basic idea and can tell you that different stone behave/feel quite differently.

So - what it is that I am going to get to - I see no problem it getting some of the best stones and be set for years, but it will be easier if you had a chance to try some stones and get the feel of the process.

If you have not problem to invest into full Gesshin or JNS setup - then your best bet would be to contact Jon or Maxim and ask about their products. That's how I did it (apart from endless browsing and asking here on KKF) :)
 
Ixnay on the Edge Pro Apex. That's what I started with but once realised it had limitations(thinning a knife for example) I learned how to freehand and sold it. If you have a job and can afford it, consider good waterstones an investment in quality tools. They will probably last your lifetime unless you are a professional cook/knife sharpener/sharpening evangelist to all your friends and family.

Another possibility, is to get a cheap chinese belt sander. It will be cheaper than a stone set and will work quite a bit faster but you may have to sacrifice a knife or two to learn to use it well. You have to make sure you learn how to use one safely and not to overheat the steel while sharpening.
 
I bought the Gesshin set along with the diamond plate and holder they sell...now I really am committed to sharpening knives lol....thanks for everyones help.
 
RubbishCook said:
I bought the Gesshin set along with the diamond plate and holder they sell...now I really am committed to sharpening knives lol....thanks for everyones help.
Click to expand...

Bravo! Should be an excellent set that will last a long time. Sharpening really isn't very difficult, it just takes some time to get use to (muscle memory). This is a great life long skill that will prove it's worth many times over.

Cheers and have fun,
rj
 
The Gesshin set is great - you will love the 2000 stone. It is incredibly fast and dishes very little. Have fun :)
 
Well one thing is for certain: if things go wrong now you cannot blame the stones. :)
Many people have managed to get excellent results with those stones and they certainly shouldn't hold you back. Not to say there aren't other good choices (because there are) but I don't think you have to worry about having made the wrong one.

Now to learn how to use them:
JKI's sharpening playlist [video=youtube;GB3jkRi1dKs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB3jkRi1dKs&list=PLEBF55079F53216AB[/video]
Korin's sharpening playlist [video=youtube;9zRNT1v0-7s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zRNT1v0-7s&list=PLsSxXLQSZIe__A5THcrFGto9_PSkXWiN6[/video]

Those both helped me a lot. Should give you a lot more to go on than a 10-minute infomercial from Bob Kramer. :biggrin:
 
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