What is the notch for on boning knives?

Hi KKF!

I feel as though I should be able to figure this one out myself, but I thought it best to ask those of you with some experience.

I've been looking into custom boning knives recently and noticed that quite a few custom makers (and Japanese smiths) make their western boners without the protruding heel that you get on a lot of production knives.

Is there any real difference in functionally, what is the notch for and do you prefer to have it or not?

Notch:



No Notch:

It's my understanding that most western butcher knives, be it boner/scimi/etc., have that guard to prevent your fingers slipping forward onto the blade due to fat/blood, as the blade is basically flush or 'behind' where the handle ends. It also aids in doing cuts that require a little more force.

brainsausage said:

It's my understanding that most butcher knives, be it boner/scimi/etc., have that guard to prevent your fingers slipping forward onto the blade due to fat/blood, as the blade is basically flush or 'behind' where the handle ends.

Click to expand...

Oh, so it allows for a thinner blade without the risk of lost fingers.

In that case can I rephrase the question as; do you prefer the thinner blade with a kicked heel or the taller blade without?

I'm more a fan of 150 pettys over curved western style boning knives. The aggressive tip is more versatile IMO. I think a wa or D handle facilitates a wider range of grips as well.

brainsausage said:

It's my understanding that most western butcher knives, be it boner/scimi/etc., have that guard to prevent your fingers slipping forward onto the blade due to fat/blood, as the blade is basically flush or 'behind' where the handle ends. It also aids in doing cuts that require a little more force.

Click to expand...

This is my understanding as well... all but the fat/blood, because I would have said fat/myoglobin since all blood is removed during the slaughtering process before the butchering begins.

I like the rounded down bit on western boning knives to scrape the bone with (bone sits so snugly in it). Though do I prefer the japanese style boning due to additional knuckle clearance, so I guess each has its own merits.

What would a wa-handled agressive tip knife with a rounded down heel look/work like?

Also curious as to why hankotsu don't have the guard/don't need it?

mikedtran said:

I like the rounded down bit on western boning knives to scrape the bone with (bone sits so snugly in it). Though do I prefer the japanese style boning due to additional knuckle clearance, so I guess each has its own merits.

What would a wa-handled agressive tip knife with a rounded down heel look/work like?

Also curious as to why hankotsu don't have the guard/don't need it?

Click to expand...

I think it's due to the style of grip(interlocking fingers) and the fact that they are intended primarily for hanging butchery. Also, the first few millimeters on most I've seen have no real edge at the heel.

Notice on the Hankotsu the actual edge doesn't start until about an inch or so away from the bolster. This is a safety feature in case your hand slips.

Regardless you shouldn't be placing the knife down in blood/fat or handling blood/meat/fat with your knife hand anyway. This eliminates the contamination of your handle and is generally a good hygienic practice.

Thanks guys see that now that you point it out, the first part doesn't have an edge.

The traditional European ones are used with the edge upward as well, as a dagger. So the fingerguard makes a lot of sense.

Used the Forschner wood handle boning knives 6" they work well the wood goes well below the blade. Do not care for the Shun. Like a thin blade because that is what I am used to. That Hankotsu looks like a capable knife.

keithsaltydog said:

That Hankotsu looks like a capable knife.

Click to expand...

It is. I acquired the same one in the photo from Salty a few years back and rehandled it with elm wood burl. Came out nice. If you are interested here is the W.I.P. video. I do it a bit different now though but you get the idea.

[video=youtube;zMaGJl4YPOQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMaGJl4YPOQ[/video]



I find it excels at boning out strips and frenching racks with what little scraping you may need to do. Here it is in action. Notice when I do scrape, it is the un edged area that I use.

Rack of lamb.
[video=youtube;OnGKsjCiFOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnGKsjCiFOg[/video]

Ny Strip

[video=youtube;Gzx0W4ljYxI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzx0W4ljYxI[/video]

Citrus Supremes

[video=youtube;jgkM_RrIGLM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgkM_RrIGLM[/video]

And here is how I sharpen it.

[video=youtube;FqEkSHJkQaQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqEkSHJkQaQ[/video]


Sorry for vid bombing this thread. I just happened to document quite a few hankotsu vids and I thought they could be useful.

I have the (lefty) misono Swedish hankotsu as well. Another thing about the handle is that it has a "reverse grip profile" for lack of a better term, so if you push, the handle gets wider towards the bolster and your hand is less likely to slip as pressure / surface area is increasing.

EDIT- just thought that this would only apply to push cut techniques, pull cut would work against you

was thinking about taking my hankotsu out of retirement today, and came across this. great videos! very helpful

When I have let my meat cutters borrow boning knives with a heel kind of like that Shun I have gotten complaints that the heel snagged on the meat when doing large draw cuts on beef clod. I'm sure they could get used to it but they just prefer the Forschner.

I have a new one to try out tomorrow that has a Forschner like blade with a hankotsu style handle. I'm excited to give it a workout.

Chuckles said:

When I have let my meat cutters borrow boning knives with a heel kind of like that Shun I have gotten complaints that the heel snagged on the meat when doing large draw cuts on beef clod. I'm sure they could get used to it but they just prefer the Forschner.

Click to expand...

I agree about the heel and also agree that you could get used to it. I also like the handles on Forschner's and would like to see pics and thoughts on your new knife. I just got this Harner and I've got a pig to cut up tomorrow and am looking to trying it out.



BTW Great vids Theory

Yeah what Theory said. The curved part on a boning knife near the handle is not sharpened. It is meant for scraping bones on ribs when you french them.

Slight (or total) derailment but I'll go on record and say I have never been able to get into Japanese boning knives. I had a Misono Swedish Hankotsu, it was miserable to sharpen and clumsy in general. I prefer a simple petty for meat fab.

I use my honesuki sometimes but I use my Itinomonn wa butcher a lot. They'll take it from my cold dead hands.

Chuck, if you are talking about the Silverthorn boning knife, I'm curious what you think of it. I gave the smith a few notes on profile and grind while I was working at Rose's Meats and Sweets, and he seemed receptive to my feedback.

Nice, I was going to see if anyone could guess the maker but you got it before I could get a pic up!

In general I really like the knife. Today was not great break in day as I ended up doing mostly larger retail roasts and portioning. I missed my Harner because I don't have to switch knives to portion with that one but that is just due to length.
The Silverthorn is semi-stiff in Forschner terms and I like 01 as a steel choice. It is only taken to 58 RHC. Initially my thought is I would prefer it harder but I doubt my meat cutters would agree. I like the profile and the handle is comfortable but heavier than I thought by looking at pictures. Overall, for breaking down pigs and actual boning tasks I am very optimistic. Probably the best I have come across and I have been looking. I will leave it in the meat room for a while and see what the guys think too.

Not sure why it rotated the picture but you get the idea.

That looks familiar! I was pleasantly surprised with how it turned out in its final form. I was in a similar situation, as any person who regularly cuts meat is as well, of wanting a decent carbon blade, thin, curved, and not terribly expensive. I think he did pretty well with all of those key points.

Nice masamoto 😉

Thanks for the vids & pics:thumbsup2: