What you need to know when ordering a custom knife

I have been actively ordering custom knives for more than 6 years. I have worked with over a dozen different makers and one I'd like to pass on some advice to everyone who is looking to place an order with a custom maker.

1) Never ask for a maker to duplicate past work. If you do, don't expect it to be the same.

2) Your project will come out better if you ask the maker what inspires them and work from that.

3) Patience. There are very few guys that are making knives here for a living. Many have other jobs and lives outside the forge. Life gets in the way. Don't set expectations with yourself or the maker as to when things need to be done.

4) For many of these makers, money isn't really as important to them as it is to you. I have heard from a couple of makers that people have contacted them to buy a project in the front of the line. While I can't speak for all makers, the one who relayed a particular story to me was offended.

5) Stop calling all the time. Use email. Don't be a pest.

El Pescador said:

2) Your project will come out better if you ask the maker what inspires them and work from that.

3) Patience. There are very few guys that are making knives here for a living. Many have other jobs and lives outside the forge. Life gets in the way. Don't set expectations with yourself or the maker as to when things need to be done.

5) Stop calling all the time. Use email. Don't be a pest.

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All of these really resonate with me.

The first thing I do when I talk to any custom maker is let them know that it is important to me that both myself and the maker are SUPER excited with the end product. I want them to know that I definitely want them to make something they love as I believe that will create the best end product.

Being patient is important (I'm personally actually a person who is rarely in a rush so this is easy). I believe there was a thread about tips for makers and one of them is to not take a large deposit up front as that create some anxiety for both the maker and the buyer around when things should be done. I personally have found most makers just want a $50-$100 deposit for materials and to ensure the customer is serious which is very reasonable. I personally would feel a bit less patient and a bit anxious if the maker wanted a 50%+ deposit on a knife.

I rarely get on the phone with a maker unless they want to. I think its great to chat on the phone or skype to talk about details of the knife, though definitely far too much to us that as a check-in method.

One thing I will add: Is don't ask a maker to imitate another makers work, that is probably the biggest insult possible. If you want it to be like another maker work, you should just buy from that maker instead =)

I have much less experience, but find the following point also relevant:

- Try to collect some experience with knives before jumping for your first custom, otherwise you have little chance to get what you want (because you do not know what you want actually)

- Make sure you know what you want and understand how to express your wishes to the maker so that you both have the same thing in mind. It is not only metter of techincal specifications (length, weight, profile, grind, etc), but it also makes sense to discuss what kind of behavior does one want from the knife.

- Do not push the maker outside his comfort zone when it comes to material, grind, HT or design. The result will not be what you hoped for. Some makers even refuse that and I agree with them.

1) have low expectations
2) beg maker to do what they think is best
3) use vague guilt trips and gifts
4) accept every excuse
5) the mitochondrion is the powerhouse of the cell
6) keep feedback private unless it is positive

XooMG said:

1) have low expectations
2) beg maker to do what they think is best
3) use vague guilt trips and gifts
4) accept every excuse
5) the mitochondrion is the powerhouse of the cell
6) keep feedback private unless it is positive

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Entertaining, educational and yet still (mostly) relevant

I don't know how you do it, but I like it

Try to get a sense of their track record meeting agreed to timelines BEFORE deciding to provide a deposit

Mitochondria also contain their own DNA. Go ATP

Just an analogy or two that people may associate with the similarities of ordering a custom knife and cooking
T for table and C for chef
T: I want the fattiest steak on the menu as rare as you can
C: barely warms a rib eye it at the rack above the grill , cooks blue , rests ... There you go
T: it is really chewy , and still bit cold in the middle , need a new one , I want medium rare but no blood ?!?!
Facepalm ...
Happens outside of cooking too , believe me
T: I want this dish but want it well done
C: I would recommend X dish instead
T: I want to eat this , I am paying customer , I can go somewhere else , about to type my review on Yelp
C: good luck , I am not coking the carpaccio of tuna with cured egg yolk , miso emulsion , compressed daikon and puffed rice

mikedtran said:

One thing I will add: Is don't ask a maker to imitate another makers work, that is probably the biggest insult possible. If you want it to be like another maker work, you should just buy from that maker instead =)

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I've been guilty of this. It didn't even occur to me that it might offend, so I'm sorry to any makers I've upset.

I'm more used to swords and tsubas, where it's standard practice to point to an antique and ask the sword-smith or tsuba-shi to make you their interpretation of it.

XooMG said:

1) have low expectations
2) beg maker to do what they think is best
3) use vague guilt trips and gifts
4) accept every excuse
5) the mitochondrion is the powerhouse of the cell
6) keep feedback private unless it is positive

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x2 this!

XooMG said:

1) have low expectations
2) beg maker to do what they think is best
3) use vague guilt trips and gifts
4) accept every excuse
5) the mitochondrion is the powerhouse of the cell
6) keep feedback private unless it is positive

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No. 7 should be never pay up front for a custom knife. Then be very patient on delivery. I don't know how many times I've been told something like "6 months" only to have that date come and go, totally forget about the request, and then 2 or 3 years later have the maker call and say the knife is ready. One European maker doubled the price after being 2 years late because, hey prices went up! I told him to sell it to someone else.

MAS4T0 said:

I've been guilty of this. It didn't even occur to me that it might offend, so I'm sorry to any makers I've upset.

I'm more used to swords and tsubas, where it's standard practice to point to an antique and ask the sword-smith or tsuba-shi to make you their interpretation of it.

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I think an interpretation of something is different than a straight imitation which is what I was getting at. For instance asking someone to make Don Nguyen's tapered tang and handle configuration for many makers might be offensive and could also be offensive to the original maker. Again I think most people will voice if they aren't happy with doing someone so I doubt you have offended anyone =)

Too bad we can't have makers post their thoughts on this anonymously...

Put as many knives in you're hand as you can before buying. Find what feels right for you. Every hand is different.

El Pescador said:

Too bad we can't have makers post their thoughts on this anonymously...

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I'm posting this anonymously;

In my career as a blacksmith I've put in many thousands of hours of work making things in which I had zero creative input. I think that's good for a craftsman. One needs to learn to make things to spec. You need to learn the dead straight line and the square corner before you can learn the fanciful curlicue.
Copying the work of colleagues, however, is rightly frowned upon as terrible business practice, though I personally would not be offended if asked, when a polite refusal suffices. Borrowing ideas and/or deriving inspiration is rather different, when you take what's yours and make it better. A good idea is a good idea.

The advice about giving the maker a limited sum of money up front is very pertinent. Money in hand is the great de-incentivizer. You can tell yourself "Well, that's in the bag! Next!" And things drift away, the urgency and thus potency of a project is lost.

The advice about allowing the maker to do their thing is good, too. You can end up talking at cross purposes with the maker because you are seeing the same end product but from totally different perspectives. Someone even wrote a book about it; "Cognition & Tool Use" Keller & Keller 2008

I'll end my comments there to avoid compromising my anonymity!

Dan... is that you?

There's some great advice in this thread, and most of it isn't limited to knives. I've purchased a number of custom musical instruments through the years and the guidelines in that market are mostly the same.

Good thread! With the increase in popularity of customs, it's always good to hear from makers and experienced clients about what's good practice. Personally, I need to be better at giving up control and leaving the maker do his or her thing. They'll always know better than me. Looking forward to hearing from more makers if they feel comfortable posting to the thread.

hostess once told me she had a rude guest try to bribe her for a table without wait and to ask me to jump their order to front of the line. i said take the money and make them wait even longer.

btbyrd said:

Dan... is that you?

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Took a little over two years, but I think you might be on to something...

Cheers for this tread! Very informative on the appropriate etiquette with knife makers. I've yet to order a custom and found this read to be enlightening. I've noticed that different types of artisans have different rules—i.e. when ordering from a luthier, it's common to reference the works of other makers, both classic and contemporary.

This thread is immensely useful for when I get to the point of wanting a custom knife. I'm hoping that most knife makers would have the courtesy and balls to politely inform a naive customer of what is appropriate and what they're willing to do, or what's out of their comfort zone.

The trick is that some makers will let you be creative and they just edit you, others have such strict rules that you basically buy teh product they want to make. Neither is right or wrong but you need to understand before choosing a maker

khashy said:

Took a little over two years, but I think you might be on to something...

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:rofl2:

welshstar said:

The trick is that some makers will let you be creative and they just edit you, others have such strict rules that you basically buy teh product they want to make. Neither is right or wrong but you need to understand before choosing a maker

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The latter is not a "custom".

just made to order standard spec

my current project i have on order is basically an off the shelf with select options that the maker already offers. standard profile, chose one of two grinds offered, and chose the steel type from his selection (but also asked for it to differentially hardened) which is where the custom part comes in to play because that is not a standard option that is offered.

If the knife git gud customer is usually happy 😀. Sometimes we speak slightly different languages maker/customer, when we learn to bridge the gap, and the maker gets enough experience for the right "judgement calls" I think we have good chance for the first to happen, with all the little neat details a custom can have.

btbyrd said:

Dan... is that you?

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No.

My only experience of ordering a customized knife was earlier this year. I was ordering a Nakaya Heiji gyuto and requested a taller shinogi and was told no, he said "I made gyuto with high shinogi line or thinner one. However in these days, I think it is not good. Because, some people bent them and repair is too difficult for them. I will make gyuto with regular thickness and shinogi."

I do respect an artisan making only what they desire if that's their thing. However, in the end I got a Mazaki gyuto—in large part because of it's availability, a KKF thread, and not wanting to wait four months for a freshly made gyuto without a minor customization.

Slightly off topic but relevant. Does this etiquette also hold true for custom handle makers? I only ask because most custom handle makers don't have websites, and it's not entirely transparent to me how to go about ordering a custom handle. My primary reference points are other handles I've seen online.

So is it uncool to say, "Hey I want one of your handles, love your craftsmanship and choice of exotic woods, but I really like Dpham's tapering and proportions, and Graydon Decollibus' compositions, love lots and lots of spacers ...what can you make for me?" A simple how to order custom FAQ would be helpful.

Or do you send your knife and say "What can you make for my Kato, I'm a lefty pinch gripper, love natural woods, neutral palettes, understatement rocks my boat."

Honest question.

You dont need to fret like that at all imo. It is a matter of expressing what you want, and the maker letting you know how/if he can meet or offer.

You should not be afraid to after that initial, be extra clear on specific details you want to get. Like for example, a front side taper, and there dont be afraid to be specific, like I would like a taper to 14 mm front width.