manufacturer recommendations for better rock chopping and food release

LOCATION
What country are you in?

USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Chef's knife or a utility type knife

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Wa

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 180-240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)no

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?$150-250



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) chopping veggies, prepping meat, etc

What knife, if any, are you replacing? n/a

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) rocking or push cutting

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) I feel like the yuki does not do the rocking as well. I also have some issues with food sticking to the blade - particularly onions.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? doesn't matter

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? heavier over lighter - but balance is more important than weight

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?smoother rock chopping is what I am looking for and better food release.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? I'm not too worried about this. I am not a heavy user and I tend to hit a ceramic rod regularly.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) end piece wood board, synthetic and a composite board

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) yes to my western SS knives - no to the Japanese knives. I send those off.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) not really

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) not at the moment.



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

What type of knives do you currently have/use? Curious because you said you steel the western SS but not your Japanese. What do you like/dislike about your current knives? 200 bucks seems (to me anyway) to be a good threshold between good, no frill knives and starting to get into a knife you should really like.

I've never ever had a knife that onions don't stick to.

daveb said:

What type of knives do you currently have/use? Curious because you said you steel the western SS but not your Japanese. What do you like/dislike about your current knives? 200 bucks seems (to me anyway) to be a good threshold between good, no frill knives and starting to get into a knife you should really like.

Click to expand...

I have one of the Wustof block sets that are SS and work fine. I'm not a huge fan, but they work. I sharpen them myself and can get a good edge, but the time commitment is a little more than I would like.

As to Japanese knives, I have:

Masakage Yuki Guyto 240
Tadafusa Nakiri 165
Tadafusa Hiraki 165

I love them. I dont feel like buying a bunch of new sharpening equipment. Frankly, its easier to send them off when they need sharpening. I just touch up the edge with a ceramic rod regularly...

DamageInc said:

I've never ever had a knife that onions don't stick to.

Click to expand...

yeah, but I have had knives that stick a heck of a lot worse than others. I'm also looking for something that is better for the rock chopping.

Rock chopping has a tendency to not agree with Japanese knives. Chipping can be an issue. Also the fact that by far most Japanese blades are much flatter than western knives, German ones in particular, causing rock chopping to not be very smooth.

I got a Tanaka from K&S last week; I rock-chop some when shredding up brussels sprouts and it works well for that. Someone somewhere here said they didn't like Tanaka's profile because it had a bit more belly than a normal gyuto. As for food release, onions stick less than to my gf's red-handle Takamura, which onions go up like rock-climbers with pitons. It could certainly be better, of course.

I would look at the Glestain line. The have pretty effective food-release dimples, some have a fair bit of belly and they are not as hard as many Japanese knives so should be more conducive to rocking without chipping. I have the Santoku, which has no belly, and I am really enjoying it. They have Western handles, which could be a deal breaker.

This?



In all seriousness most here won't spend a lot of time rock chopping, in part because it's so inefficient. Up and down, up and down.

I teach a "Housewife Knife" knife skills class (my name for it) and while I show participants push cutting and draw cuts I know that when left on their own it will be back to rock chopping. And there's nothing wrong with that for these folks - they might spend 30 minutes with a knife at Thanksgiving and Christmas and don't need the efficiency.

As noted some of the J Knives will be better suited to rock chopping. I frequently grab a Tanaka when I know I'll be mincing herbs. At the other extreme my Nakiri is almost worthless on herbs. And that's all good.

The Tadafusa you have is a good, no frills knife. I'm sure smarter people than I can recommend a step up.

You could get Zakuri they have a nice sweep near the tip of the knife. They have decent fit and finish. Also worth the price, they perform very well indeed. Look them up on Google.

daveb said:

This?

In all seriousness most here won't spend a lot of time rock chopping, in part because it's so inefficient. Up and down, up and down.

I teach a "Housewife Knife" knife skills class (my name for it) and while I show participants push cutting and draw cuts I know that when left on their own it will be back to rock chopping. And there's nothing wrong with that for these folks - they might spend 30 minutes with a knife at Thanksgiving and Christmas and don't need the efficiency.

As noted some of the J Knives will be better suited to rock chopping. I frequently grab a Tanaka when I know I'll be mincing herbs. At the other extreme my Nakiri is almost worthless on herbs. And that's all good.

The Tadafusa you have is a good, no frills knife. I'm sure smarter people than I can recommend a step up.

Click to expand...

Dave you crack me up an onion for an onion. That hunk of junk can't even rock chop. Crap handle he should have stuck to tactical knives. A lot of Japanese gyuto's have enough sweep to rock chop. You do not need much. Japanese know how to make an all around well performing chef knife. Push cuts, chopping, rocking , slicing, peeling.

For non stick properties check out the Ichimonji Kichikuni stainless clad blue #2 core. Blueway Japan owner Keiichi Omae. It has a thick spine, Nashiji pear finish little blade heavy not a bad thing great cutter can do it all.

And learn how to free hand sharpen. It is not that hard. Much support on this forum. You will never have to use a dull knife and once your blade is trained to your sharpening style touch ups are easy. All knives need sharpening best to learn not depend on others.

thisisputt said:

You could get Zakuri they have a nice sweep near the tip of the knife. They have decent fit and finish. Also worth the price, they perform very well indeed. Look them up on Google.

Click to expand...

Yep, Zakuri could be a good choice. Shape looks right, anyway, and they aren't super-thin. Here's what mine looked like:


I can't really speak to food release. My main knife is a thin cleaver and onions stick to it like lovesick limpets, so I think I just get used to scraping things off and don't really pay attention.