If you couldn't get a Billipp

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Badgertooth

Badgertooth

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
2,664
Reaction score
655
What would you get?
What are your reference cutters?
My reference cutters, each with their own deeply satisfying attributes, and which set my benchmark and which I hope to keep company with my next acquisition are:

A thinned 240 Kato workhorse
A thinned 240 Shig Kasumi gyuto
A thinned 240 Tanaka Blue 2
A 270 Toyama with original geometry

I know there's a lot of love for Kochis around here, Cris Anderson, DT. Any outliers, like Dan Prendergast that people can weigh in on?
 
For me (& I keep crying to Jon who has been trying to help supply me another) is my Gengetsu Clad White ... awesome, awesome, awesome ... to this day just love it. Just none to be found at the Mo (have a 210 want a 240) ... Love my DT's but that gengetsu has, for me, a perfect thinness behind the edge and just a wonderful grind ... my $0.02 (never cut with a Kochi or certainly a Mr. Anderson ... on my list though). Catcheside (WillC) is another though that I really, really need to play with ...
 
Would definitely second that Wills stuff is fantastic. Probably my best cutter right now.
 
MontezumaBoy said:
For me (& I keep crying to Jon who has been trying to help supply me another) is my Gengetsu Clad White ... awesome, awesome, awesome ... to this day just love it. Just none to be found at the Mo (have a 210 want a 240) ... Love my DT's but that gengetsu has, for me, a perfect thinness behind the edge and just a wonderful grind ... my $0.02 (never cut with a Kochi or certainly a Mr. Anderson ... on my list though). Catcheside (WillC) is another though that I really, really need to play with ...
Click to expand...

I love a couple of Jon's knives (Kochi and Gesshin Kagekiyo) and Will's San Mai gyuto. I just got a 240mm and paring knife from the certain Mr. Anderson that I will hopefully get to use more this weekend but look and feel awesome (his new stock line in AEB-L line, I am in line for full customs but it will be a bit).
 
If you are lookinng at knives with particular design and hand forged finish, I would look closely at Ginrei, KU Carter, Dan, Bloodroot (not that the waiting time there is any shorter) and probaly some others that do not cross my mind at the moment.
 
Thanks guys. Will C is popping up a lot here and I am 12 months into the Bloodroot waitlist. I'm tentatively gonna say that Cris A is a little rich for my blood. I love the look of the Ginrei's but have yet to hear anyone weigh in authoritatively in how it's cuts as well as or better than anything that sets their benchmark
 
Badgertooth said:
Thanks guys. Will C is popping up a lot here and I am 12 months into the Bloodroot waitlist. I'm tentatively gonna say that Cris A is a little rich for my blood. I love the look of the Ginrei's but have yet to hear anyone weigh in authoritatively in how it's cuts as well as or better than anything that sets their benchmark
Click to expand...

I handled the generic version of the Ginrei, the Shi-han and I found them a bit light for my taste.
 
Strictly performance and f&f based, I second Kochi and even though they dont get much love around here the Kono Fuji line.
 
Besides Billipp: Tilman, Watanabe, Kato
 
Kochi would certainly represent incredible bang for buck which is what I love abt my Tanaka
 
Reference cutters for me personally would be Carter, Watanbe, Marko. I have used a bevy of other gyutos but these all three of these makers stand out as a class of there own albeit each a different respective style.
 
rami_m said:
What about all your shigs?
Click to expand...

I'd say it cuts better than the Shig gyutos. Most of my other Shigs are single bevels, petty (not really comparable), and a huge nakiri which is just plain fun =)
 
Kochi has somewhat different and a bit thinner profile than the Billipp. Where most of the knives mentioned difffer from Billipp is the weight distribution. Billipp gyutos do not have so pronounced front-forward balance, as the handle and tang/neck is heavier than on a WA gyuto YO gyutos would be closer. Also - his knives have relatively strong distal taper and also the blade profile is rather pointy - so there is not much weight towards the tip. There are worlds of difference in behaviour betweeb Kato Workhorse and Billipp even though they weight about the same (see my review of the Billipp here on KKF). I am no saying one is better than the other, that is mainly matter of personal preference.

EDIT: Billipp has also different approach to HT - his blades are no quite as hard on the HRC scale (I think around 61) as many Japanese blades are - you can see the difference is you accidentally bump to something you should not - the edge reacts by a mix of bending and chipping, rather than just chipping and is thus somewhat tougher. The edge holding is however still plenty good I find.

The thing is - Billipp knives are rather unique in design, HT and geometry, so if you are looking for a similar knife you need to decide which of the properties you would like to get clcose to. You will not get all of them.
 
Ok then. What's closest in grind/ profile?
 
Matus said:
Kochi has somewhat different and a bit thinner profile than the Billipp. Where most of the knives mentioned difffer from Billipp is the weight distribution. Billipp gyutos do not have so pronounced front-forward balance, as the handle and tang/neck is heavier than on a WA gyuto YO gyutos would be closer. Also - his knives have relatively strong distal taper and also the blade profile is rather pointy - so there is not much weight towards the tip. There are worlds of difference in behaviour betweeb Kato Workhorse and Billipp even though they weight about the same (see my review of the Billipp here on KKF). I am no saying one is better than the other, that is mainly matter of personal preference.

EDIT: Billipp has also different approach to HT - his blades are no quite as hard on the HRC scale (I think around 61) as many Japanese blades are - you can see the difference is you accidentally bump to something you should not - the edge reacts by a mix of bending and chipping, rather than just chipping and is thus somewhat tougher. The edge holding is however still plenty good I find.

The thing is - Billipp knives are rather unique in design, HT and geometry, so if you are looking for a similar knife you need to decide which of the properties you would like to get clcose to. You will not get all of them.
Click to expand...

The quality I am most interested in is raw cutting ability. I would forego food release for something that cuts moves through product. I like knives with pronounced distal taper and thinness behind the edge. Balance point is less of an issue as I enjoy both blade forward and centre balanced knives for different reasons. I like inherent power of blade forward knives and the agility of centre balanced knives. I think you and I like the same knife of DP on IG. Great looking profiles.
 
Cris Anderson (CJA).... Fujiwara Denka!...(then Kato)
 
Iggy said:
Cris Anderson (CJA).... Fujiwara Denka!...(then Kato)
Click to expand...

I completely forgot to add Fujiwara San to my list. I do really want a Denka. I know he gets a mixed rap round here but I love my maboroshi
 
I wouldn't hesitate to buy an Erik Fritz gyuto.

Billipp is pretty unique. If you're sold on his work, I guess there's nothing else that compares.
 
Billipp is, when it comes to thickness behind the edge on the thinner side, but not the thinnest out there - e.g. Kochi is even thinner. The grind is kind of hidden wide bevel - when you run your fingers fron the spine towards the edge you will feel a slight shoulder - approximately where the forged finish stops. Comparable would be Carter, but he makes knives each with different thicknes and in general thinner than Billipp at the spine. But they are definitely worth checking out.

I am wondering whether Gesshin Kagekiyo would not go in similar direction. You may want to talk to Jon, but I am not sure whether he had used (or worked on) a Billipp gyuto. Kochi would work too.

When I come to think of it - the 210 Haburn that was in a passaround last year had a similar grind - also kind of wide bevel - it was easier to see on that monosteel blade. It was a very good cutter, I am pleased to remember.
 
Matus, I've always wondered what makes a Billipp so special. I've tried to find your review but couldn't find it. Could you post a link?
 
Thanks, Matus. Great reviews. They gave me a good insight in an Billipp knife.
 
If passing through food is your top criteria, I'd say Carter. Not the best for food release, but that's because its just so thin and really takes an amazing edge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top