Munetoshi, Toshihirosaku, Toyama - how are they?

I have been poking around the threads on these knives and I finally figured out that it was about the time to start a separate thread.

I am looking at middle-weight workhorse that is thin behind the edge, has nice front-forward weight balance (though not as extreme as Kato Workhorse), some gentle curve to the cutting edge - the tip not as high as the Kato does.

I am wondering how do these 3 knives cut and how do you guys find they compare to other knives. I do not expect anyone (apart from Maxim of course ) to have used all 3, but I would very much appreciate your experience and opinions on any of the 3.

Thanks

Toshihirosaku looks nice. I've been looking forward to some user reviews. I'll get a 240 whenever they're stocked. Maxim has no idea when that's gonna happen.

I'm curious about the Toshi as well.

I'm a big fan of Toyama. Fit and finish is appropriate for a knife made to beat on. Which I've done. And continue to. Choil and spine have just enough rounding that you don't lose track of them, but also don't really notice them, if that makes sense? Really nice grind on my 270 gyuto. Thin behind the edge, with nice food release. Barely wedges on anything. Heel height helps with that, for sure, but so does the grind. Good weight IMO. Not so much that it's a hindrance, just enough to help with the work. The profile is more on the santoku side, but not so far that it's hitting Watanabe territory. Not that there's anything wrong with that mind you. The tip is ground thin enough to pull off fine work, and the heel is stout enough to power through rough stuff. Edge retention is stellar. It's one of, if not the best, all around gyutos I've experienced thus far.
On the other hand- I've been playing with Panda's KU 210 Munitoshi Gyuto for about a week now. Haven't measured it, but I'd guess it's closer to 220. Feels a bit heavy for its length, in a good way. It's pretty rough in all respects. Spine and choil are barely finished, yet don't feel bad to work with. The grind is kind of a wide bevel, meets clam shell. It's a hard knife to pin down overall. Has a bit of that 'different' feel that you get with a Shig. They're not the same knife at all. But are very characteristic and solely THAT knife. Which the Toyama has some of as well, but is more built for work IMO, and less finicky. The muni has an excellent profile, but is wedgier by far than the Toyama. Reminds me of a far better version of Heiji in terms of grind. Not sure yet which wins out regarding edge retention, but they're damn close thus far. At this point, I prefer the Toyama for just pure work, but the Muni is one of those knives that I want to have in my kit because it's fun to use. And I can't really say why, other than it just feels good. Which I know is kind of a BS thing to say on a knife forum. But those who know what I'm saying- know what I'm saying.

All 3 are worth owning IMO. The toshihirosaku looks to be really thin behind the edge knife probably suited for more finesse work(just a guess) munetoshi seems to be a great all a rounder. Toyama is a big strong pit bull.

Hey brain sausage, any idea how much that Toyama 270mm weighs?

labor of love said:

Hey brain sausage, any idea how much that Toyama 270mm weighs?

Click to expand...

It's chunky. I wanna say it's pushing 280, but I could just be talking out my ass. Haven't weighed it since I received it from Maksim almost a year ago. My kit is at the BBQ. I'll throw it on the scale again tomorrow and report back.

Brainsausage - thanks a lot! That is excellent feedback on the Toyama - really helps me to get an idea what to expect. Also knowing that Munethosi wedges more is good to know. Looking the the choil shot of the Toshihirosaku and Munetoshi on maxims site they seem very similar.

One question concerning the Toshihirosaku - is the 240 version really only 47mm at the heel?

I should soon have a chance to try out Gesshin Hide 240 in blue#2 - any guess how these 3 knives could compare to it? The grind would look somewhat similar to Toyama, but the profile is different and the knife is also lighter.

labor of love said:

Hey brain sausage, any idea how much that Toyama 270mm weighs?

Click to expand...

Don't you love when you guess weight and it's right on the dot? Like when portioning fish but you don't feel like weighing every piece .

brainsausage said:

It's chunky. I wanna say it's pushing 280, but I could just be talking out my ass.

Click to expand...

I've always said your ass is the smartest part of your body.

JohnnyChance said:

I've always said your ass is the smartest part of your body.

Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, you said it was the best looking part...

What brainsausage said.

I don't know how to objectively quantify what I'm trying to say with the Toyama but I just find myself reaching for it a lot. It feels beefy like it should crack through everything but is one of my least wedging knives. Edge retention is unreal. And HT is unlike any other blue 2 I've encountered

Badgertooth said:

What brainsausage said.

I don't know how to objectively quantify what I'm trying to say with the Toyama but I just find myself reaching for it a lot. It feels beefy like it should crack through everything but is one of my least wedging knives. Edge retention is unreal. And HT is unlike any other blue 2 I've encountered

Click to expand...

You really make me want to try one I should soon have the possibility to test Watanabe so that I can at least get an idea how do I like the profile and weight distribution (I understand these are similar between the two).

Matus said:

You really make me want to try one I should soon have the possibility to test Watanabe so that I can at least get an idea how do I like the profile and weight distribution (I understand these are similar between the two).

Click to expand...

Very similar and both very well regarded.

Matus said:

You really make me want to try one I should soon have the possibility to test Watanabe so that I can at least get an idea how do I like the profile and weight distribution (I understand these are similar between the two).

Click to expand...

Yeah I've already owned Toyama and these guys have me wondering why I sold it in the first place!

Any more feedback on Munetoshi or Toshihirosaku? Thanks

JohnnyChance said:

I've always said your ass is the smartest part of your body.

Click to expand...

brainsausage said:

If I remember correctly, you said it was the best looking part...

Click to expand...

Well it certainly isn't your face so.....

I wonder how does Toshihirosaku compares to Itinomonn? (besides Carbon vs SS). 210 looks interesting.

Matus said:

Any more feedback on Munetoshi or Toshihirosaku? Thanks

Click to expand...

Bump

I got a chance thanks to fellow KFF member to test a Watanabe 240 that to my understanding share certain design features with the Toyama. But I got really motivated to get my hands on the Munetoshi, but it seems that it will be a while as these are out of stock (with no restock in sight), Maxim is on vacation and when he finally gets back I will be on a vacation. Oh well ...

I bet if you posted a wanted ad you will find one. It's super reactive so not for the average user, someone is bound to have buyers remorse.

panda said:

I bet if you posted a wanted ad you will find one. It's super reactive so not for the average user, someone is bound to have buyers remorse.

Click to expand...

Yeah my Kasumi mune is almost as bad as shig. Almost.

labor of love said:

Yeah my Kasumi mune is almost as bad as shig. Almost.

Click to expand...

I've been saying this for awhile now, but when I first bought my 240 Shig years back it was super reactive, and then I sent it to Jon for a more 'natural' Kasumi finish. The reactivity dropped drastically. I also built a pretty solid patina by julienning about 20 quarts of onions. The KU Muni that I mentioned above already had a good patina from Panda and Dardeau. Didn't notice any issues with cutting onions, in fact I brunoised some pickled jalapenos and it didn't seem to affect the patina at all.

I did a coffee patina on that one.

I have just used my 240, and haven't gotten a lot of weird patina from it

The patina that builds in my Kasumi mune looks like splattered and dried franks red hot. Hopefully it calms down over time. Although I'm about to etch the crap outta it soon.

you gave it psoriasis!

Oh yeah! My point is that it's hard to build up a patina on a knife that looks like a week old miscarriage.

Interesting point about the reactivity. I personally would prefer the kurouchi version, so reactivity would be a little less of an issue.

Matus said:

Interesting point about the reactivity. I personally would prefer the kurouchi version, so reactivity would be a little less of an issue.

Click to expand...

The Kuroushi version is pretty reactive as well!!
That was the first time i saw a Kuro being that " sensible " .
Even through the Kuro finish.
Though after some time it becomes less reactive and as soon as every crack in the blackish finish is covered / protected by patina you don't worry anymore.
All in all a good knife for it's price.

My ku is pretty reactive as well. I got legit rust on it that I need to take care of. I did my normal routine with a dry/damp towel and then a new dry paper towel wipe and it still rusted. Hopefully it'll calm down because as said before its a great knife for the money.