Makers - Offer to help.

Without discussing any moral implications judgement of what may or may not be happening. I believe some help and encouragement is needed to bring this situation towards a conclusion and bring Pierre back into the dialogue to help make positive action.

I can pledge some help towards filling a few of your back orders. I pledge 2 simple random damascus blades , forged, heat treated, ground, ready to be hand finished and handled in your style, that should take allot of the dust out of the equation? I can provide these before xmas this year if it helps.

I would encourage other makers to offer what help you can according to your speciality, see if we can bring some positive action and solution between us.

I hope with this encouragement Pierre you can make a list of what has to be done and begin a positive dialogue.

Will

Why would anyone want to enable this type of behavior?
I don't know why these orders weren't filled, but they were not and he took customers high percentage deposits for years.
Two actions should take place per the customers choice: a full refund or the promised work. That's it. End of story.
If somebody wants to take their time and provide Rodrigue with time and materials when Rodrigue won't even be bothered to respond to his customers - well then that's none of my business.

Haburn said:

Why would anyone want to enable this type of behavior?
I don't know why these orders weren't filled, but they were not and he took customers high percentage deposits for years.
Two actions should take place per the customers choice: a full refund or the promised work. That's it. End of story.
If somebody wants to take their time and provide Rodrigue with time and materials when Rodrigue won't even be bothered to respond to his customers - well then that's none of my business.

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Ian, I absolutely 100% agree with you.

He's doing all honest custom makers a major disservice. And the LEAST he can do is communicate more. People here are so effin understanding, if he would come out and say that he just doesn't have the money and cannot make knives right now for health reasons, that's at least be an honest (I guess) step in the right direction.

No offense to Will, but unless he knows more than others, I don't think this is right. It's his choice, but I think it only encourages this kind of behavior.

To me it's mindboggling how there can be open orders from 2012 yet this guy doesn't have a problem posting Multiple knives that he made for the site that shall not be named on his IG account.

To end this on a positive note: I cannot state enough how happy I was/am dealing with you, Ian, for my custom knife. I think that has to be said. The small deposit, the updates, the deadline that was kept, quality of work.. All top notch! Thanks!

I completely agree , the offer is for the good of the community, if it can help.

11
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daveb said:

11
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Get off the internet, grandpa.

When I compare the current response of the community to that which was given to Eamon Burke a few years ago when he was in a similar situation, I am disheartened.

Thank you for your more than generous offer, Will.

Rick

i'm really impressed that another maker would step in with an offer to try to help out some of the customers that got ripped off, much respect to you WillC!

the situation sucks, but i'm glad it has come out into public knowledge because any makers who don't follow through on their contracts and not offer refunds should be banned from this business. this is why full payment should only be collected once a knife is completed and ready for shipment (with a reasonable initial deposit to show commitment from customer).

This is a slippery slope.
Yes, I commend Will for his generous offer and all around good sportsmanship, but he can't commit to all of the delinquent work and I don't think anyone could expect him to.
So who are the lucky recipients of a Catcheside 'bailout blade'? What are the qualifications? And for those who don't get one, how will they feel about that? Burned by Pierre and passed over by Will with still nothing to show for it? I wouldn't feel too good about that if it was me.
It's great to see a community come together like this, but as Ian said it seems a bit "enabling".
:2cents:

I haven't been taking any deposits, partly because of this issue which is so disheartening to see. However I have already been "burned" by this on my end a couple of times, and deposits/part payments are probably on the horizon for commision work sooner rather than later.

Question from a non-knife-making, random by-reader: Can not doing an item which is backlogged longer first be reasonably explained with supply issues, eg material needed is right now not in stock and/or funds to restock are lacking?

Unfortunately I am in the same boat, $$$ deposit from November 2011.

Whilst I have utmost patience and want to be as understanding as possible, its the lack of communication now that worries me the most. Even now if I hear from Pierre, I will gladly move aside in the urgency list to let him sort out other orders first. I just want to hear from him.

Ian makes a strong point I had not considered it would be taken as enabling, I meant to present a practical solution for the good of the customers and to say this won't happen in this community as a whole.


Another way to say that would be with legal action, I wouldn't want to derail anyones course of action.

If everyone chipped in to do a little , without taking on something that would put them at a loss. For example I could probably provide the two dammy blades to a certain state of finish over a long weekend......it could present an opportunity for pierre to do the right thing finally by his customers.
If people can't feel they can help, or are understandably not willing...it won't work,
If it interferes with legal claims, it can't work,
It can't work with out Pierres Input and action either.

My thought was to put it out there, and with enough makers willing to do a little it might at least draw Pierre into a dialogue. Maybe.

It was just an idea

ecchef said:

This is a slippery slope.
Yes, I commend Will for his generous offer and all around good sportsmanship, but he can't commit to all of the delinquent work and I don't think anyone could expect him to.
So who are the lucky recipients of a Catcheside 'bailout blade'? What are the qualifications? And for those who don't get one, how will they feel about that? Burned by Pierre and passed over by Will with still nothing to show for it? I wouldn't feel too good about that if it was me.
It's great to see a community come together like this, but as Ian said it seems a bit "enabling".
:2cents:

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Pensacola Tiger said:

When I compare the current response of the community to that which was given to Eamon Burke a few years ago when he was in a similar situation, I am disheartened.

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I don't think it's fair to say the community has deteriorated in some way based on the responses here. With Eamon, the guy was flat broke sitting on a box of blades that just needed finish sharpening and handles before they could be shipped to customers that had paid for them in full. It was extremely generous of people to step up and make that happen (I remember how great Danny was at the time), but this situation is really not comparable.

Danny was an organisational wizard through that, not to mention driving however many hours to pick up everything in the first place.

Its dawning on me I have not really thought this through, with no idea how deep the hole of orders reaches even.

So ... we have someone from 2011 by now. If you search the forum here, you will find a lot of information about correspondences in this type of matter. I don't know WHEN these health problems started to affect his ability to work, but I have seen no evidence that it went that far back. If you check his Instagram account, the first post is from January 2015. And you have multiple knives and razors shown after that first pic. Of course there is no proof he made them in the prior months, but there's also no indication that these are old projects he finished prior to taken deposits from folks in this community (as early as 2011 as we know by now ....).

Furthermore, if you look at the thread from Chinacat, you can see that as far back as 2012 he was not responding and/or blowing people off. Some of the explanations back then were "I don't remember your real name", "I had computer issues" etc.

Now, I don't want to make accusations here, but come on ...! If you put all the pieces together, this does really not look like ONLY recent health reasons. Because those most go back a couple of years really if that is what this is all about. I do not want to make this even more controversial than it already is, I am just pointing out some information that is readily accessible on this said forum. I think this is a community, and as such it should stick together ... but in this case were it is quite obvious by now that multiple members of the community have been wronged, these people should be protected and supported. A lot of us show incredible patience with and trust in custom makers, spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars with them. At that point it is serious business, and should be treated as such ...

Will, You're generous offer made me smile. If you can help a couple people "get well" I think it would be great. If you can't then no harm, no foul.

Dang it! Been watching this unfold for a while now...

I agree, this is bad. and wrong on every level. Even knowing this.. I still feel its "Right" to help the members here if possible. Many of whom I consider family or friends. So IMO, working together to right a wrong is still more "right" then doing nothing in the face of these facts. Im going to go ahead and at least try to help the forum and Its members who have been wronged. IF, as a group. We move forward in a way to make the community whole again. I would be able to help with as many as 4 fully finished ready for handles. AEB-L stainless 240mm gyuto, Western blade blanks. and can do so, once plans are in place.

I sure hope Pierre starts doing whatever is necessary to rectify the situation.

God Bless
Randy

It's really quite amazing to see you folks stepping up out of the goodness of your hearts. What an impressively strong community!

Yes most people here are amazing!

I'm still hoping that Pierre responds to my email and offers to start making some restitution to people in order of their deposits. I'm going to give him another week to respond, then consider what a reasonable next step shoudl be

WillC said:

Without discussing any moral implications judgement of what may or may not be happening. I believe some help and encouragement is needed to bring this situation towards a conclusion and bring Pierre back into the dialogue to help make positive action.

I can pledge some help towards filling a few of your back orders. I pledge 2 simple random damascus blades , forged, heat treated, ground, ready to be hand finished and handled in your style, that should take allot of the dust out of the equation? I can provide these before xmas this year if it helps.

I would encourage other makers to offer what help you can according to your speciality, see if we can bring some positive action and solution between us.

I hope with this encouragement Pierre you can make a list of what has to be done and begin a positive dialogue.

Will

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Well.... I know who's getting my business in the future!

Haburn said:

Why would anyone want to enable this type of behavior?
I don't know why these orders weren't filled, but they were not and he took customers high percentage deposits for years.
Two actions should take place per the customers choice: a full refund or the promised work. That's it. End of story.
If somebody wants to take their time and provide Rodrigue with time and materials when Rodrigue won't even be bothered to respond to his customers - well then that's none of my business.

Click to expand...

As someone who has been affected by this, I agree with you 100%. Pierre was big boy enough to take the money, he can be big boy enough to give it back, or face consequences.

I'm glad to see that other makers are willing to chip in to help us that are affected. I greatly appreciate any and all efforts by you guys! If it doesn't worn out the thoughts are what count.

Ultimately I hope Pierre will try to work out a solution with us. I emailed him today asking to be paid back or have a knife within a month, so we will see.

WillC said:

I completely agree , the offer is for the good of the community, if it can help.

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This situation is reminiscent to one with Eamon Burke, where several of us offered to make good on his defaulted orders. If I am not mistaken,that project didn't take off (Kerring contacted me recently about his knife, but I never got the blanks to begin with), and perhaps it should serve as a reminder not to make promises that might not be kept.

It's a messy situation to be in, and life does get in a way, but one has to deal with the consequences of his making. We all have made mistakes, one time or another, but whether one corrects them or not, it's up to the person.

Personally, I can't contribute to this project, as I am coming off a hand injury myself (I didn't work for almost 5 weeks) and have no capacity for extra work.

I was one of the people affected by the Eamon Burke ordeal, and was very thankful for the support given to finish the project (mine was done by the good will of Bill Burke). I thought most actually got their knives in the end, some possibly still waiting but the materials are will those who promised.
I am missing a lot of information on the total story of both cases, but this one feels much different than the last. This time the makers (and others last time) are not only offering their time to finish the knives, but materials as well. To me this is akin to random members offering up knives out of their collection to offset the missing knives. Absolutely awesome of those willing, but this goes beyond goodwill to me.
If you guys do go forward with anything I would be willing to chip in a bit of $ to help with shipping/materials, same as last time, but I do view this as much different than the prior instance.

And I hope you heal well and soon Marko!

This made me smile Randy, I feel the same way, I guess we will see how the situation plays out for now and see how the list develops. , Hope he can come forward now and do the right thing. So much of this could have been avoided with communication, quite frustrating, I feel for those effected. Thanks all for your points of view.

HHH Knives said:

Dang it! Been watching this unfold for a while now...

I agree, this is bad. and wrong on every level. Even knowing this.. I still feel its "Right" to help the members here if possible. Many of whom I consider family or friends. So IMO, working together to right a wrong is still more "right" then doing nothing in the face of these facts. Im going to go ahead and at least try to help the forum and Its members who have been wronged. IF, as a group. We move forward in a way to make the community whole again. I would be able to help with as many as 4 fully finished ready for handles. AEB-L stainless 240mm gyuto, Western blade blanks. and can do so, once plans are in place.

I sure hope Pierre starts doing whatever is necessary to rectify the situation.

God Bless
Randy

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I appreciate the offers to help, and would accept them. I am not trying to screw anybody out of money or product. Yes all me an ass, deserved, call me a crook, I hope not. I have only recieved 3 emails form clients. I answered them. I dont know when I can get back into full swing. What do I do? I work in the oil field, you all know where that market is. I have no extra cash. FInancially I am in a bad way. I will finish the orders promised, I have not taken new orders in well over a year. I am at your mercy. I feel bad asking for time, but I need it.
How do I proceed?

PierreRodrigue said:

I appreciate the offers to help, and would accept them. I am not trying to screw anybody out of money or product. Yes all me an ass, deserved, call me a crook, I hope not. I have only recieved 3 emails form clients. I answered them. I dont know when I can get back into full swing. What do I do? I work in the oil field, you all know where that market is. I have no extra cash. FInancially I am in a bad way. I will finish the orders promised, I have not taken new orders in well over a year. I am at your mercy. I feel bad asking for time, but I need it.
How do I proceed?

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I emailed you twice, no response.

You proceed by giving people's money back that wants it, including me.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/27846-Refund-demand

It would be helpful if you would post how much you have in outstanding deposits and monthly updates on how your progress is in refunds and fulfilling orders. I suggest if you have any finished knives in your own collection, you offer them for sale on BST with the money going to refund people according to the age of their deposits.

The point is people need to see actions and progress not words at this point...

gic said:

It would be helpful if you would post how much you have in outstanding deposits and monthly updates on how your progress is in refunds and fulfilling orders. I suggest if you have any finished knives in your own collection, you offer them for sale on BST with the money going to refund people according to the age of their deposits.

The point is people need to see actions and progress not words at this point...

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I am all for getting this sorted however posting details of what is owed to who etc is way to confidential to be posting publicly.

Perhaps a more appropriate request would purely be getting in contact, individually, to all with outstanding deposits and coming up with an appropriate resolution, be it refund, realistic delivery time, trade or whatever.