How to get to hanging hair/push cutting toilet paper sharp?

So as the title says how to I get my knifes to the next level of sharpness. Is it that I need better/finer stones I have a King 1000/6000 or is the the more likely canidate that I need better technique. I can get the knifes sharp even to shave and push cut newspaper and bite into a fingernail but would not consider them scary sharp.

Jeff

Those stones will do it, technique is where it lies. Back when I used to work at Tosho, my previous boss could get edges like that on cheap stainless knives off of a 120/400 atoma plate. Obviously that's sort of an unrealistic goal for most of us (I've never gotten close) but it just comes down to the individual and the hands

The better question is do you need them that sharp?

Razors have an argument to be that sharp but for a working kitchen knife i don't think it is necessary.

As an aside, my father-in-law was checking my knives out a few weeks ago and commented how sharp they were (he is no slouch and my sister-in-law is a chef who sharpens their knives so he is used to a sharp knife to a degree). And my edges are by no means exemplary.

So i think what i was getting at is that sometimes us nuts need a bit of a reality check to what is actually necessary...

Of course nothinf stopping you from trying to get to that level for sh!ts and giggles.

Practice and finer stones i would suggest. Remember the fundamental thing that causes something to be cut is pressure aka force over area.

As a cook I know that I don't need them sharp enough to push cut toilet paper. Or cut a hanging hair. But it is my personality to to do things to an extreme. Both good and bad things I have a tendiency of over indulgence. So this is more shits and giggles. I think I need to get more into the science of a good edge.

Jeff

Practice, very thin edge, good stones, practice, lots of time on your hands. A desire to open a shaving service for traveling Yetis and Sasquatches is always a plus. Also some good friends that will pretend that they are impressed by your amazing hair popping edges. It wouldn't be worth the effort without them after all.

Are you stropping on felt or leather loaded with a substrate like diamond?

ThEoRy said:

Are you stropping on felt or leather loaded with a substrate like diamond?

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+1 After a 6k Arashiyama/TakenokoI I use to always roll through a progression of diamond compounds on balsa and usually ended up with hair popping edges. I stopped doing it a while back when I realized I was mostly wasting time.

As Chef Doom noted, it is fun when friends act like they are impressed.

Cheers,
rj

I am fairly new to the whetstone and stropping thing. My sharpening setup in rudimentary at best right now it includes the king combination stone,a soft pine board for reburring and
newspaper or cardboard for stropping. It is still better than the Norton oil combo stone I had before I discovered japanese knives.

Jeff

jmgray said:

I am fairly new to the whetstone and stropping thing. My sharpening setup in rudimentary at best right now it includes the king combination stone,a soft pine board for reburring and
newspaper or cardboard for stropping. It is still better than the Norton oil combo stone I had before I discovered japanese knives.

Jeff

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Not a bad set up at all. For most people to get a kitchen knife to pop a hanging hair would take a finer stone or strops loaded with compound as well as good technique.

I use a Bester 1200 and a King 6000 for much of my sharpening (I have other stones, but those two have been in use for about 20 years). I don't get hair popping sharp edges every time, but my knives are plenty sharp for what I do with them.

I suspect super sharp edges require very steady honing, and I wobble too much since I don't get enough practice. The more you sharpen, the more refined the edge is going to get.

You may get better results if you do as I often do, strop on soft wood loaded with chromium oxide. Half micron, very hard, but more forgiving than diamond to say nothing of cheaper.

Peter

http://www.coticule.be/hanging-hair-test.html
People say "hangig hair test" for different things sometimes. This description from the Coticule site has been my favorite so far.

I had a hard time getting a decent HHT4 or HHT5 before I got a 12k stone. Coarser ones wouldn't work with my poor technique. A steady supply of uniform hair is neede. I use my wifes hair brush.

jmgray said:

As a cook I know that I don't need them sharp enough to push cut toilet paper. Or cut a hanging hair. But it is my personality to to do things to an extreme. Both good and bad things I have a tendiency of over indulgence. So this is more shits and giggles. I think I need to get more into the science of a good edge.

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It's about how you define that 'extreme'. Is it about the obvious, eye-catching things like slicing the hanging hair or push cutting toilet paper? On the other hand, I think the extreme could involve trying to work out the best serviceable edge, not too coarse or fine, not too smooth, something that'll last and fit what you use the knife for, which probably shouldn't be hanging hair cutting or toilet paper push cuts, and working this out could be more 'extreme' because it is less obvious. It could be that that Lamborghini you own can go over 300km/h, but that in itself will never be useful; you'll probably appreciate its other aspects.

Would not the HHT be skewed by the type of the hair? I would think that it's easier to cut black stiff hair (asian style) compared to dirty blond soft and thin one (western Europe style)

Jeff , I'm in southern Ct. A few days a week. If you want to try stropping to get to the next level, I'd be happy to let you try one out. I have a few different things you could try.

psfred said:

I use a Bester 1200 and a King 6000 for much of my sharpening (I have other stones, but those two have been in use for about 20 years). I don't get hair popping sharp edges every time, but my knives are plenty sharp for what I do with them.

I suspect super sharp edges require very steady honing, and I wobble too much since I don't get enough practice. The more you sharpen, the more refined the edge is going to get.

You may get better results if you do as I often do, strop on soft wood loaded with chromium oxide. Half micron, very hard, but more forgiving than diamond to say nothing of cheaper.

Peter

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Mrmnms said:

Jeff , I'm in southern Ct. A few days a week. If you want to try stropping to get to the next level, I'd be happy to let you try one out. I have a few different things you could try.

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Mrmnms thanx for the offer. I live in northeastern Ct thou and that is a 21/2 or 3 hour ride to the NY border area depending on traffic. I don't make it down that way very often. Between 50 hour work weeks and 3 children. On another note what would be a good starter strop?

Sounds like you are getting workable sharp edges. Thumbnail drag test is sharp if it grips. Do not care for sharp edges around my hands, usually sale it through newspaper after a couple swipes on it to remove any residual burr. Less sound & resistance through the paper means a sharper blade.

Even if you get them to this level you probably have the sharpest knives in the kitchen. To take it to the level you are talking about can play with some stropping & compounds. Another way to get hair splitting edges is to buy a white steel single bevel sashimi knife and not put a micro bevel on it. Just the SB edge meeting the hollow ground backside. One of the sharpest edges you can get.:O