Japanese Knives Expected price raises across japan for knives

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JBroida

JBroida

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Just a heads up for everyone... a number of knife maker associations across japan have agreed upon price raises for products made by their members. It seems this is occurring in multiple regions, and even those outside of these associations will be raising prices. In many cases, we expect to see 20% increases (though we have been told that some will be more). We have been told that these changes will begin in the fall, but people are going about it differently. Some have already started, while others will take a bit longer. Some will be raising prices on knives ordered from that point on, while others will be raising prices on everything (including items that have already been on order, but have not yet been paid for or shipped). This is not in every single region for knife making, but we have heard this from many of them, and expect others to follow suit.

We have not seen so much of this as of yet, but we expect this to start effecting us (and everyone else) shortly.
 
I cant finger the real reason for it. It eludes me.....Is it because of high demand or material prices or exchange rates?

From Demand perspective.. the Artisan workshops can't scale up much and the better ones deserve what the market is willing to pay...

As for the raw materials, when it reached shy high prices prices were raised. When it crashed.. it was a HAppy Times for them. I didnt see any price reduction

When the Yen strengthen ( exchange rate) all the from 120 to 77.. again it was Happy times. When it weakened the other way round... slight increase

Inflation? its real low in japan... they are trying to force it up...


any thoughts?
rgds
d
 
I was wondering the same thing...the jpy has strengthened in the past couple of weeks...but this agreement sounds like it's it's taken more than two weeks to come about, so I would guess that there are more factors at play.
 
Before we accuse our beloved knife makers of trying to steal from us, I think we should look at how they live. Many live as artists, investing enormous amounts of time and effort into their craft and make shockingly little. So you know, generally knife dealers get a 50% discount when buying wholesale. Take Kato for example, he is only getting payed a couple hundred bucks for his 240mm Gyuto. He has to buy the handle and get a saya made for the knife by another craftsman too. I cant imagine what he is left with after paying rent, abrasives, charcoal/gas and electric. Most of these people deserve more. As a community of people who appreciate and obsess over their work, I think we should be open these kind of changes and more understanding.
 
Pricing has already begun to run away, I've noticed this at several retailers already. I'm happy I bought my knives when I did. I don't think I would have purchased at today's prices. I will say though a 20 percent increase in pricing will slow demand considerably.
 
Chicagohawkie said:
Pricing has already begun to run away, I've noticed this at several retailers already. I'm happy I bought my knives when I did. I don't think I would have purchased at today's prices. I will say though a 20 percent increase in pricing will slow demand considerably.
Click to expand...

I'm fine with that. Supply & demand... that's how capitalism works (or should work haha)...
 
JBroida said:
Just a heads up for everyone... a number of knife maker associations across japan have agreed upon price raises for products made by their members. It seems this is occurring in multiple regions, and even those outside of these associations will be raising prices. In many cases, we expect to see 20% increases (though we have been told that some will be more). We have been told that these changes will begin in the fall, but people are going about it differently. Some have already started, while others will take a bit longer. Some will be raising prices on knives ordered from that point on, while others will be raising prices on everything (including items that have already been on order, but have not yet been paid for or shipped). This is not in every single region for knife making, but we have heard this from many of them, and expect others to follow suit.

We have not seen so much of this as of yet, but we expect this to start effecting us (and everyone else) shortly.
Click to expand...

Do you expect it to affect your Kochi line as well?
 
zitangy said:
I cant finger the real reason for it. It eludes me.....Is it because of high demand or material prices or exchange rates?

From Demand perspective.. the Artisan workshops can't scale up much and the better ones deserve what the market is willing to pay...

As for the raw materials, when it reached shy high prices prices were raised. When it crashed.. it was a HAppy Times for them. I didnt see any price reduction

When the Yen strengthen ( exchange rate) all the from 120 to 77.. again it was Happy times. When it weakened the other way round... slight increase

Inflation? its real low in japan... they are trying to force it up...


any thoughts?
rgds
d
Click to expand...

There are a number of reasons, but the rising cost of materials, and difficulty of finding certain materials plays some role in this. In addition, the wage discrepancy between the craftsmen and wholesalers in japan plays a role too. But, mostly, we just havent seen significant price raises from the craftsmen over the years. Some, yes. But not as many as you guys seem to think. Many price raises have been the result of currency fluctuations. Since we started japanese knife imports, we have seen the yen get as strong as 74 yen to the dollar and as week as 125 yen to the dollar. In general, we try to not mess with the prices so much, so when the exchange rate sucks, we eat it a bit. When its a bit nicer, we make up for that time a bit. If it gets too extreme in either direction, we adjust pricing (but not as fas as to be in alignment with the extreme exchange rates at that time). We have raised and lowered prices accordingly. In fact, i just lowered prices on some things that needed it. Also, we dont always raise prices when prices are raised on us. This is different. This price raise is about the craftsmen wanting to be paid more fairly. I've actually encouraged this kind of price range, and i think anyone would when they see what kind of work goes into the knives, and what kind of money the craftsmen are able to make for that work.

Currently, demand is out of control. No one can keep up. Most normal orders are taking 3-6 months on the fast side of things, with many companies having waits as long as 2-3 years (and some even longer). They are working like crazy to keep up. This is about being fair to the actual craftsmen who make the knives, handles, sayas, etc. that we all love. Not only do they deserve more as they get better and increase their abilities, but they also have to deal with a rising cost of steel, abrasives, coal, charcoal, electricity, wood, buffalo horn, etc. Also, how would you feel if you started a job 10 years ago at $15 per hour and were still making $15 per hour today?
 
alterwisser said:
Do you expect it to affect your Kochi line as well?
Click to expand...

i think this will effect pretty much everything, but i'm not changing any prices yet. I only plan to make pricing adjustments on my side if necessary. For some of our orders, this wont be as apparent, as we are locked in on old pricing for orders placed previously, so those will take much longer to see this change. On others, it may happen more immediately, but the changes may be within a range of things we can deal with, and so the price adjustment may be nothing or very small. In some cases, however, we may see a significant raise. I dont know how this price raise will play out with retail pricing in japan or here. I just know that i will have to pay attention and make some adjustments over the next few months.
 
jklip13 said:
Before we accuse our beloved knife makers of trying to steal from us, I think we should look at how they live. Many live as artists, investing enormous amounts of time and effort into their craft and make shockingly little. So you know, generally knife dealers get a 50% discount when buying wholesale. Take Kato for example, he is only getting payed a couple hundred bucks for his 240mm Gyuto. He has to buy the handle and get a saya made for the knife by another craftsman too. I cant imagine what he is left with after paying rent, abrasives, charcoal/gas and electric. Most of these people deserve more. As a community of people who appreciate and obsess over their work, I think we should be open these kind of changes and more understanding.
Click to expand...

JBroida said:
There are a number of reasons, but the rising cost of materials, and difficulty of finding certain materials plays some role in this. In addition, the wage discrepancy between the craftsmen and wholesalers in japan plays a role too. But, mostly, we just havent seen significant price raises from the craftsmen over the years. Some, yes. But not as many as you guys seem to think. Many price raises have been the result of currency fluctuations. Since we started japanese knife imports, we have seen the yen get as strong as 74 yen to the dollar and as week as 125 yen to the dollar. In general, we try to not mess with the prices so much, so when the exchange rate sucks, we eat it a bit. When its a bit nicer, we make up for that time a bit. If it gets too extreme in either direction, we adjust pricing (but not as fas as to be in alignment with the extreme exchange rates at that time). We have raised and lowered prices accordingly. In fact, i just lowered prices on some things that needed it. Also, we dont always raise prices when prices are raised on us. This is different. This price raise is about the craftsmen wanting to be paid more fairly. I've actually encouraged this kind of price range, and i think anyone would when they see what kind of work goes into the knives, and what kind of money the craftsmen are able to make for that work.

Currently, demand is out of control. No one can keep up. Most normal orders are taking 3-6 months on the fast side of things, with many companies having waits as long as 2-3 years (and some even longer). They are working like crazy to keep up. This is about being fair to the actual craftsmen who make the knives, handles, sayas, etc. that we all love. Not only do they deserve more as they get better and increase their abilities, but they also have to deal with a rising cost of steel, abrasives, coal, charcoal, electricity, wood, buffalo horn, etc. Also, how would you feel if you started a job 10 years ago at $15 per hour and were still making $15 per hour today?
Click to expand...

Well said Jon and Jon.

This is just an informal observation on my part, but I think it's also important to remember that many craftsman are nearing retirement and if the younger generation is to be convinced to enter bladesmithing they will have to be paid as such to encourage them to not seek a higher paying career in another profession.
 
tjangula said:
Well said Jon and Jon.

This is just an informal observation on my part, but I think it's also important to remember that many craftsman are nearing retirement and if the younger generation is to be convinced to enter bladesmithing they will have to be paid as such to encourage them to not seek a higher paying career in another profession.
Click to expand...

I would happily be an apprentice to one of the makers...

No, I'm serious. Only...

1) I'm too old

2) my Japanese is as good as my Finnish, Farsi and Klingon

3) I live in New Jersey!

Oh my...
 
tjangula said:
Well said Jon and Jon.

This is just an informal observation on my part, but I think it's also important to remember that many craftsman are nearing retirement and if the younger generation is to be convinced to enter bladesmithing they will have to be paid as such to encourage them to not seek a higher paying career in another profession.
Click to expand...

Master itsuo doi has no successor. His son decided to become a normal company employee and the reason? "blacksmithing is too hard for too little"
 
alterwisser said:
I would happily be an apprentice to one of the makers...

No, I'm serious. Only...

1) I'm too old

2) my Japanese is as good as my Finnish, Farsi and Klingon

3) I live in New Jersey!

Oh my...
Click to expand...

Perhaps you can use your employment position to strike a lucrative business deal that'd be a win-win for you and the bladesmith
 
Here's a probably dumb question - I kind of read this like it will affect the prices of largely handmade knives. Are the prices expected to go up 20% on the mass produced (Tojiro, for example) stuff as well?
 
pkjames said:
Master itsuo doi has no successor. His son decided to become a normal company employee and the reason? "blacksmithing is too hard for too little"
Click to expand...

That's why I'm not a farmer, as my grandfather was, and my father was in his childhood: it's damned hard work for little pay...
 
mc2442 said:
I know the dollar has been strong, but hasn't the "flight to quality" strengthened the yen in relative tandem?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't a strong dollar make everything cheaper, all else equal, anyway?
 
TurboScooter said:
Here's a probably dumb question - I kind of read this like it will affect the prices of largely handmade knives. Are the prices expected to go up 20% on the mass produced (Tojiro, for example) stuff as well?
Click to expand...

It seems that this will effect everything. I think a lot of you would be surprised to see the amount of physical labor even factory produced knives require.
 
JBroida said:
It seems that this will effect everything. I think a lot of you would be surprised to see the amount of physical labor even factory produced knives require.
Click to expand...

My understanding that even with knives like Tojiro DP which are not had forged, there is still a lot of work on grind and finishing that is up to large extend hand made.
 
Matus said:
My understanding that even with knives like Tojiro DP which are not had forged, there is still a lot of work on grind and finishing that is up to large extend hand made.
Click to expand...


Did you hire Melania Trump's writer? ;-)
 
I wonder why the demand on J knives became so hot....
 
I was talking to So from Japan-tool about this and he mentioned it more affecting the mass makers, so those looking for katos or shigefusas might be ok. A 20% increase all at once is quite substantial imo. He was also mentioning that this is happening due to these japanese makers now choosing to focus on the western market not their local market. All in all not the best situation especially how it has been handled at least from what I have heard.
 
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