Need a little help with a THIN 240 gyuto

Hi,

I am contenplating getting a THIN 240 gyuto to accompany my newly acquired Munetoshi 240 which is a very enjoyable knife, but is not the best for hard tall vegetables.

My preferences are:
- thin, no wedging
- WA handle (or no handle at all - I can make one myself)
- preferably stainless or semi-stainless, but carbon would be OK too
- preferably under $/€ 300 (used is also an option)
- as little flex as possible

I have sofar identified the following knives that could fit:
- Gesshin Ginga
- Konosuke HD/HD2
- Konosuke GS
- Sakai Yusuke (I have just contacted bluewayjapan and waiting for an answer)
- Itinomonn StainLess (ist it 'thin enough' ?)
- Suisin INOX honyaki (bit too expensive)
- Ikkanshi Tadatuna INOX

My questions:
- what would you pick and why?
- are there other options I should consider?

Thanks

What about a matus blade?

I vote matus blade as well

Shibata knives are super thin, bit flexible and just under 300 usd.
Is the only laser I have in my collection

Btw I would go with the konosuke hd

Matus, You'll get a stiffer blade with San Mai than mono-steel. If you can score a Kono. Ginsan 240, its ultra thin and cuts like a dream in a bad a$$ steel with incredible F/F. The 210 is thicker at the spine with more distal taper. A 240 was posted for sale on a non-vendor site last week. All be it, they are pretty hard to come by.

I had a kikuichi Damascus that was 240 stainless and was pretty rigid. - needed to get rid of some blades to replace with others.

RDalman said:

I vote matus blade as well

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You guys got me there I have actually yet to sharpen and finally USE the gyuto I made, though at 195g (or so I recall) it is not quite in the same category. I have no idea why I have not done that yet - I guess I needed a pause from it after so many hours of hand sanding

Mucho Bocho said:

Matus, You'll get a stiffer blade with San Mai than mono-steel. If you can score a Kono. Ginsan 240, its ultra thin and cuts like a dream in a bad a$$ steel with incredible F/F. The 210 is thicker at the spine with more distal taper. A 240 was posted for sale on a non-vendor site last week. All be it, they are pretty hard to come by.

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Your advice confirms my impression that often san-mai blades tend to be stiffer than monosteel knives. I have not heard about the Konosuke Ginsan before - I will check it out.

I've owned/used all of them. I rate them in this order:

- Suisin INOX honyaki - Best fit and finish by a hair; very easy to sharpen; uniquely shaped wa-handle (octagonal on the top, rounded on the bottom); the only downsides are the screened, rather than etched/engraved kanji and that it has a machi, which some find objectionable.

- Ikkanshi Tadatsuna INOX - I used this as my daily driver for several months, and can only fault it for food release (which is a common fault of all thin blades); sold it, and have regretted it; if I had to choose between the Suisin and the Tadatsuna I'd have to flip a coin.

- Gesshin Ginga - Almost on par with the Suisin and Tadatsuna; difficult to find in stock.

- Sakai Yusuke - Fit and finish not up to the Suisin, Tadatsuna or Ginga; screened kanji (if that's important).

- Konosuke HD/HD2 - At one time these knives were a good value, but the price has increased way beyond what they are worth. HD/HD2 steel is prone to staining, and had no discernible advantage, at least for me.

- Konosuke GS - I had one of the early knives, not the latest GS+. Nothing really wrong with it, just nothing that made it stand out for me; the clad construction should make thinning easier; the handles on the GS+ that CKtG sells are just downright ugly, IMO, but you might find them pleasing to your eye.

- Itinomonn Stainless - Not a very thin knife at all, so it may not meet your specifications. FWIW, I found the one I had to be a good compromise between a very thin blade and a thicker one, like the Toyama or Watanabe.

How about one of Jon's new Ikazuchis?? It looks crazy thin, even compared to a Ginga!

+1 for Shibata Kotetsu. Really like mine, great quality with a nice rosewood handle. Good choice if you like stainless.
I am also intrigued by the Ikazuchi due to the stainless cladding on the AS core. I would give those a look too.

Hi
-Shibata Kotetsus are the most lasering lasers .. the only weird one is one 210mm got here for testing and it cuts bad .. sorry but the 190mm bunka cuts godlike compared to this (well it actually always cuts godlike).. the kiritsuke gyuto shape is very nice!
..i guess if i would be allowed to jnat it and re polish the flanks it would also cut godlike and would rock totally

-Ashi stainless are awesome and cut mostly better than the Konosuke equivalents (tested this with a 260mm stainless kiritsuke and the shirogami konosuke was bad compared to the ashi so my friend was frustrated and tried to resharpen it ..well i have no comparison with gyutos)
just sad that you cant order directly and choose a super awesome handle any more ;(

Thanks! You guys are awesome.

PT, that is a very detailed overview. I have included the Kono GS because I can buy it without handle in EU for about 200€

I am going to have a closer look to Suisin and Tadatsuna.

I do realize that the Itinomonn stainless may not be quite as laser (165g), but it still looks interesting - and is available in EU

About the other ideas:

Ikazuchi - yes, I am aware of them and discussed them briefly with Jon. The profile does have a little more belly than I may want and according to Jon the Ginga is ever so slightly more stiff. But it is still a very attractive at that price point.

Shibata Kotetsu - seems like these only come with kiritsuke shaped tip and I am not sure I like the profile. Maybe I just need to look at them for a longer time

I would strongly consider the Sukenari R2 from Knives & Stones.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/sukenari-sg2-r2-gyuto-240mm-with-saya/

It's slightly north of your budget but it comes with a nice looking saya & semi-custom handle.

I own the ZDP-189 version (although not from K&S - but still the same blade) and it is extremely thin - yet also fairly stiff. Easily one of my favorite knives, if not my favorite.

Here are some pictures of it against a Gesshin Ginga and a Takamura:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...west-knife-buy?p=392433&viewfull=1#post392433

Can't argue with Rick's assessment though for me, when price is considered, the coin toss is between the Ginga and the Tad. I recently tossed that coin and went with my second Ginga - sold the first one and damn...

In Europe shipping may be significant and tilt towards the Tad.

Not a bad knife between the three. No first hand experience with kono.

Korin France hast the Suisin on sale at the moment. 300 for the 240.

JDA_NC said:

I would strongly consider the Sukenari R2 from Knives & Stones.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/sukenari-sg2-r2-gyuto-240mm-with-saya/

It's slightly north of your budget but it comes with a nice looking saya & semi-custom handle.

I own the ZDP-189 version (although not from K&S - but still the same blade) and it is extremely thin - yet also fairly stiff. Easily one of my favorite knives, if not my favorite.

Here are some pictures of it against a Gesshin Ginga and a Takamura:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...west-knife-buy?p=392433&viewfull=1#post392433

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Kippington said:

Interesting, I never considered this knife to be that thin, but you're probably right. I guess it's all relative.

Left to right: Sukenari 240mm, Sukenari 270mm (w/ chip), Richmond GT Artifex 210mm (thinned).

And thanks for the info chefcomesback. It will help with the shopping.
I'll try to record a stress test video tonight.

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I started searching for reviews of these, because I was interested in it. Reviews/descriptions for it seem all over the place - some people say it's thin and cuts well other people say it's average.

Klippington has a couple videos in that thread, including his 240mm doing prep, and there's at least one more on YouTube that shows a 210mm in use.

The forum that cannot be named had a passaround of a 240mm ginsanko version, and the same knife gets pretty different impressions by different people.

JKI carries the 240mm non forged ginsanko version for $175, if you want to go that route for under budget.

I have HD2 and Ginga Stainless. I prefer Ginga, but HD2 has little bit less flex. Never had any issue with either or in this regard tho.
Also Ginga is thinner behind the edge. HD2 has better stock F&F.

Bottom line, I don’t use my Kono much anymore; Ginga used to have it nice share of board contact till recent.

Also, Ikazuchis from Jon looks very interesting; but you gotta add $35+ for shipping and possible border tax

TurboScooter do you mean JCK for the Sukenari?

Dude, you need to get on that, could save you some money. My purchased knives don't get any use anymore but have become the benchmark by which i compare the ones i make. Not to say mine are necessarily better, but i have certainly become less enthused by my purchased ones as i unlock their secretes for a fraction of the cost.

Matus said:

You guys got me there I have actually yet to sharpen and finally USE the gyuto I made, though at 195g (or so I recall) it is not quite in the same category. I have no idea why I have not done that yet - I guess I needed a pause from it after so many hours of hand sanding

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Not much experience on the laser end of the spectrum but I really enjoy my HD2.

Matus you said thin, didn't say laser? So I'm betting the Itinomonn stain-less would work great.

Now I have no first hand experience with it, but some weeks ago I had help me choose a knife thread asking for gyuto with a long flat spot, a rocking tip and good distal taper. Someone was probably spot on with the Itinomon. Now I have my eye on it and will get one for sure in the near future.

I read couple of reviews on it and it was praised of it's cutting abilities. Just look at that distal taper in the photo at JNS. It should give the knife laser-ish qualities. AND look at that close to perfection profile? You alredy know that's my wheel house right there!

Here's couple other ideas at Cleancut from Sweden so easy breazy to order their stuff to germany:

http://cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/kockknivar/kockkniv-6-detail
I ordered one couple of days ago, should arrive today. I'll chime in more when i have it in my hand. Veery attractive pricing. It's only 1,1mm at the spine and only 149g for a 240 mm. That's a sirious lightsaber! Just look at that profile!!! It´s carbon though.

Here is the european re brand for Kohetsus, the Co Say:
http://cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/kockknivar/gyuto-2-2237-detail
Stainless clad carbon. Same profile and geometry as my Kohetsu Hap40. Good cutter, laser performance but slightly curved belly.

Here is Kohetsu Hap40 only rebranded as Kohsey hap40
Great steel, great cutter but again slightly curved belly. No experience with the vendor though.

...And finally there's the Tanaka VG10 damascus. It's a laser performer with one of the best grinds around, but the profile has a continues curve at the belly.

I own a few lasers, and honestly... The Sakai Yusuke puts them to shame. The fit and finish is flawless and the steel is remarkable on White 2.

I completely forgot about my Tsukiji Masamoto. Killer profile, takes a nasty edge and falls through food. Stiff for a skinny

(also) this is why I love this place And selecting a new knife is so much fun

I have have noticed the Sukenari R2 from James, but seeing the weight of 200g I did not pay more attention,though I guess that the ebony handle adds soe 30 - 40 gram compared to simple Ho wood handle. It does look very nice though.

As of now the ordering from JKI would not carry a premium as I have an opened order with Jon anyhow, so JKI is definitely included

Jessf, yes you are right. But at the same time I need to have a few knives with different grinds at home to have that comparison - is that good enough as an excuse?

JaVa - thanks for the heads up on Shiro Kamo and Kohetsu (which I though only come with kiritsuke-like tips)

The Tanaka looks interesting, but the grind is not quite as thin.

I am still waiting for a reply on the Sakai Yusuke from bluewayjapan ...

The Tsukiji Masamoto does look nice, but seems a little pricey for a knife made from SK steel.

Benny - I am not seeing any discount on the korin-france webpage for the Suisin ... ?

foody518 said:

TurboScooter do you mean JCK for the Sukenari?

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I do indeed mean JCK, not JKI.

I meant the V1, which is like hitachi blue

And pretty reasonable at ¥19000

Badgertooth said:

I meant the V1, which is like hitachi blue

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Could you please PM me where it can be found? Google is failing me again