Looking for a Laser Gyuto

LOCATION
What country are you in?

Australia


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Japanese Handle Only

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

180mm, maybe 210mm but really only want a 180mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

Yes, high quality stainless

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$1000


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home use

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Basic Cutting of meat and vegetables

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

None

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

Hammer

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Push cut, slice

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics - The fancier the blade and handle the better, but not essential. Damascus, hammered finish, ku, all ok. Like exotic materials.

Comfort- not an issue

Ease of Use- looking for zero wedging, want excellent food release from blade, excellent slicing capability, paper thin cutting of vegetables, cutting meat effortlessly.

Edge Retention- looking for great edge retention and looking for best of the best stainless

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

End grain chopping board only

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes, not often enough though

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Looking for an absolute LASER that has high quality stainless steel. The knife being a laser is most important, the quality of the stainless steel is second most important.

You want a good stainless with good edge retention, look at PM steel.
R2/SG2, SRS15, HAP40, ZDP, Crm something, and similar.

You've mentioned that you want laser and excellent food release. This is somewhat an oxymoron. The downside of a laser is that there is not enogh material to create good geometry, hence food release is usually on a poor side.

Your budgdet is very generous for 180mm, you can probablly go custom or semi-custom and have a very fancy blade and handle. As I understand you a looking for a flashy piece.

This is probably the closest I can think of:

http://www.chuboknives.com/products/tanaka-sg2-gyutou-180mm-7-1#.V6XsDe8RVyU

It will meet pretty much all your requirements except, probably, food release. Lasers are not renowned for food release.
If the handle is not exotic enough, you can easily rehandle.

James, k&s, has a 210 version with an ironwood handle, though that is western.

I have the 270 with ironwood handle, and it's a very impressive knife, the best slicer I have.

kevpenbanc said:

This is probably the closest I can think of:

http://www.chuboknives.com/products/tanaka-sg2-gyutou-180mm-7-1#.V6XsDe8RVyU

It will meet pretty much all your requirements except, probably, food release. Lasers are not renowned for food release.
If the handle is not exotic enough, you can easily rehandle.

James, k&s, has a 210 version with an ironwood handle, though that is western.

I have the 270 with ironwood handle, and it's a very impressive knife, the best slicer I have.

Click to expand...

Ahh, I see, thanks for your responses guys, I can deal with the lack of food release to get a super thin and light laser. The knife being fancy isn't the main priority but would only be a bonus. Main priority is laser then stainless quality.

Your linked knife ticks a lot of boxes but seems thick at 3.5mm at the spine would this knife still be classed a laser?

This Tadatsuna seems insanely light and thin - 4oz and 2mm thick?

http://www.aframestokyo.com/ikkanshi-tadatuna-wagyuto-210mm-inox-blade-kn210.html

This Shibata is also just over 4oz and 1.7?mm(seems exceptionally thin) at the spine

http://www.chuboknives.com/products/shibata-kotetsu-r2-gyutou-210mm-8-2#.V6XwLa8mKh8

These are both pm, is inox, r2/sg2, zdp189 best?

Is there any other ultimate lasers that come to mind that perform and are as light and thin as the above?

Ikazuchi, suisin inox honyaki, sakai yusuke, konosuke hd or GS. I'd also look at gesshin kagero wa. Thickness at the spine is not too relevant. I'd go with the tanaka personally. Also note that the ironwood knives are more midweight while the wa handled ones are lasers

Buildn said:

Ahh, I see, thanks for your responses guys, I can deal with the lack of food release to get a super thin and light laser. The knife being fancy isn't the main priority but would only be a bonus. Main priority is laser then stainless quality.

Your linked knife ticks a lot of boxes but seems thick at 3.5mm at the spine would this knife still be classed a laser?

This Tadatsuna seems insanely light and thin - 4oz and 2mm thick?

http://www.aframestokyo.com/ikkanshi-tadatuna-wagyuto-210mm-inox-blade-kn210.html

This Shibata is also just over 4oz and 1.7?mm(seems exceptionally thin) at the spine

http://www.chuboknives.com/products/shibata-kotetsu-r2-gyutou-210mm-8-2#.V6XwLa8mKh8

These are both pm, is inox, r2/sg2, zdp189 best?

Is there any other ultimate lasers that come to mind that perform and are as light and thin as the above?

Click to expand...

I have the Tadatsuna from aframes, in white 2, the Tanaka is the better knife imho, by some distance.

If looks are secondary, then chubo have this Takamura which has good feedback, though I have no experience of it.

http://www.chuboknives.com/products/takamura-r2-gyutou-180mm-7-1#.V6YE9e8RVyU


R2 is better than inox (stainless) in my experience for sharpness and edge holding. ZDP189 is better for edge holding, a little harder to sharpen - no experience of ZDP189 myself.

If i had a $1000 wanted stainless bling and a 180mm gyuto i would contact mert tansu and see what he can do for you. If you can handle a westren takamura 180 is arguably the best $/$ lazer money can buy a 180 should run around 200 aud $150ish usd.

I had a 210 Tanaka R2 in the past with WA handle. It was a beutiful knife. The damascus pattern was relatively deeply etched what did cause a little drag when cutting meat. Sharpening was easy and edge holding was great.

The abbreviation "inox" can be applied to any stainless. The noun "Inox" refers to a manufacturer's specific formulation of stainless. Tad's "Inox" is (if I recall correctly) Ginsanko. Different than Suisin IH. Different still than Henckel's "Inox". Thus R2 is inox. If a particular manufacturer wanted an Inox line formulated from R2, that would not be incorrect. (Just confusing)

I have a Tad Inox suji that I like a lot. Had a Tad Inox petty. Will one day have a Gyuto. Also have a few other Ginsanko blades from Suisin, Hide and Tanaka that are great to use, great to sharpen.

My Tanaka G is not the laser my Gesshin Ginga is, my SIH was or presumably the Tad Inox is. Don't think a Tad white and Tanaka is a valid comparison for this OP's requirements.

@OP, a grand will buy you a lot of knife. You could be in a nice OTS 210 for 300ish. My choice and suggestion would be the Tad or Ginga.

If you want your Best Knife Ever I suggest looking at customs.

Mert is down your way. Robin (RDalman) is known for very nice, very thin, knives. (Thought I would mention him before he does.... ) Butch Harner is also known for very thin, very nice. I'm sure I forgot some - my apologies.

You'll need to drop some more coin on sharpening gear. Even the custom route should leave you with enough.

Some thoughts of the brands mentioned here that I'm familiar with:
I think the two most recommended knives in the laser department are Takamura R2 (red handle) and Tanaka vg10 damascus wa.

Takamura is thinner, has better steel and has better f&f, but has a western handle. It is probably the best cutter in it's group.

Tanaka has a flashier blade with a very nice glossy damascus and better food release plus you can usually choose the a western or a japanese handle. From Tanaka only the vg10 Damascus is a laser afaik.

Konosuke HD would probably be great but is impossible to get your hands on them so not a real option and it's (I believe) semistainless.
Konosuke gs, I'd choose the Tanaka everytime. Tanaka has a better profile, is looking, has a great proven track record.

If you would consider the lighter knives in the middleweight division, it would open up much more option with the pm steels (r2, srs15,hap40) because for some reason that's their domain. But you seemed quite sure of not going there. Which is fine. It's good to know just what to want!

At lower mid weight takamura hana comes into play. With your left over $850 from the tanaka you could definatly get a custom wa handle and still have $700 ish left over

This was my 210 Tanaka - I would not mind to have one in 240 size

If you're willing to spend that much on a knife, I'd suggest you just go with Robin Dalman and call it a day. You still save half of your budget and get something that just MIGHT already be the best (stainless) laser you can get. I LOVE my Dalmans. Not sure if they're the thinnest knives out there, but they have a mean distal taper and the tip is OH SO THIN. I think recently he started making them a tad thicker, But my Mini-Gyuto has the super thin tip and the first time I used it on horizontal onion cuts I was a bit speechless. It absolutely outperformed my Ashi Ginga. And I like that one a lot!

You could get a custom Xerxes Laser in stainless Niolox steel, it has special blade shape (several hollow grinds) for food release:



Contact: http://www.xerxes-knives.de/37.html

I do not have experience with Xerxes knives, but with that kind of budget I would be very tempted to go for a san-mai laser.

Xerxes did a custom damascus knife out of 1.2562 (a very rare steel, very hard to forge which will keep an edge for a VERY long time) and 1.2767, not sure how much it would cost but would be amazing to have.



More about the knife: http://www.xerxes-knives.de/206.html (in German, you can translate the page in Chrome browser)

Sharpchef who bought this knife and tested it in a pro cooking environment said in a home kitchen it would probably keep a sharp edge for a year.

I've been using a Tad Inox 240 for several years and it is my go to laser. Rule one around here seems to be the knife you don't have is always way better than the one you do. Could be but I don't really feel the need to look for something better in this case.

daveb said:

The abbreviation "inox" can be applied to any stainless. The noun "Inox" refers to a manufacturer's specific formulation of stainless. Tad's "Inox" is (if I recall correctly) Ginsanko. Different than Suisin IH. Different still than Henckel's "Inox". Thus R2 is inox. If a particular manufacturer wanted an Inox line formulated from R2, that would not be incorrect. (Just confusing)

I have a Tad Inox suji that I like a lot. Had a Tad Inox petty. Will one day have a Gyuto. Also have a few other Ginsanko blades from Suisin, Hide and Tanaka that are great to use, great to sharpen.

My Tanaka G is not the laser my Gesshin Ginga is, my SIH was or presumably the Tad Inox is. Don't think a Tad white and Tanaka is a valid comparison for this OP's requirements.

@OP, a grand will buy you a lot of knife. You could be in a nice OTS 210 for 300ish. My choice and suggestion would be the Tad or Ginga.

If you want your Best Knife Ever I suggest looking at customs.

Mert is down your way. Robin (RDalman) is known for very nice, very thin, knives. (Thought I would mention him before he does.... ) Butch Harner is also known for very thin, very nice. I'm sure I forgot some - my apologies.

You'll need to drop some more coin on sharpening gear. Even the custom route should leave you with enough.

Click to expand...

Noodle Soup said:

I've been using a Tad Inox 240 for several years and it is my go to laser. Rule one around here seems to be the knife you don't have is always way better than the one you do. Could be but I don't really feel the need to look for something better in this case.

Click to expand...

I know Mert, I saw him yesterday, not really looking for a custom with this knife but I am sure a Tansu Knife is on the cards at some point.

I am looking for the thinnest lightest knife possible and from the quoted feedback the Tad could be the answer at 4oz it's only a few grams heavier than the Ginga which is not available in a wa Gyuto, only westerns are left.

The others seem a little heavy and while being thin near the edge are a little too thick at the spine which concerns me a little with wedging, I could be way off with this wedging observation but I am looking for the lightest and thinnest knife and the Tad seems to tick both these boxes.

Any one else have any feedback on the Ginga or Tad Inox 210, or any other Mega Lasers?

In terms of sharpening gear I have a decent stone collection so got that covered.

My Tanaka R2/SG2 PM Stainless 210mm wagyuto is a laser beam.

Ikazuchi or takamura. I wouldn't fix on spine thickness as some sort of magic number. The thinness at the spine isn't the final determinant of whether it's going to wedge or not. It's the thinness behind the edge and where your grind starts and what that resolves to about 10mm above the cutting edge. But if lightness is a factor I actually struggle to picture a knife thinner than the two abovementioned and they cut like true lasers

+1 The Takamura came with the sharpest OOTB of all my knives. Keeps a sharp edge very long and is very easy to sharpen on the stones (only had to do it once so far). After sharpening I just had to touch the tomato to cut through the skin.

And a Hana or Uchigumo would be one hell of an upgrade aesthetically

+1 for the Takamura Hana / Uchigumo, although they can be difficult to find in 180 (unlike the red handled one). I've only seen them at Knifewear here in Canada and chefs armoury in Australia

The Uchigumo is western handled, but part of your budget could go towards a hidden tang rehandle and it could be shaped to wa style. I've also seen some Hana with ironwood on the Takamura IG account… absolutely sick! I have a set of Uchigumos which are getting rehandled with the hidden tang and more of a wa shaped handle which are sure to be epic.

The 180 tanaka would be the most guaranteed option since it looks to be in stock, and also the easiest to rehandle.

Lot of good suggestions here.

Have fun in your search.

If you are after ready made... Then considering your budget... Gesshin Ginga from JKI and then the gesshin 1k/6k diamond set with some of the left over.

Whether being particular about a budget in the value range or the more exotic range, it can be a challenge. Interesting to see the feedback here. Why the high budget...in no way do I ask this in a negative way.....just curious and I absolutely would be a goner for knives beyond my value budget. Laser and food release are not often on the same page. Less the budget, I resonate with your criteria. Never used a Dalman knife but his s grind is the rare real deal. For stellar customer service I suggest that you call Jon. He is well known for working with thin, very thin.

The budget is just to show that I am looking for the ultimate laser, i picked a high figure to show that the features i.e. thinness and lightness, are the most important factors, not price. If the best laser as per the criteria cost $300 I would get that, if the best laser cost $1000 I would get that, not necessarily looking for the most expensive knife in the price range just the one that best suits my requirements.

I suppose the issue, is, what are the best features of a laser for you?

Do you just want it to be super thin? Or is food release an issue for you?

I might get corrected here, but I would suggest you definitely don't need to spend more than $300US to get the best in class laser... The only issue is there are probably 2 or 3 that are all just slightly different.

My personal vote is the Gesshin Ginga, but that is really the only one I have used in the laser category, but I can't see you wanting or needing anything else. But I take it the other ones mentioned are basically of the same vein.

Has the Suisin Inox Honyaki been mentioned in this thread, it's been called one of the best lasers by some. It's made out of stainless 19C27 which sharpens great and holds an edge for a extra long time.

My criteria are thin, light, nimble, small(max 210), available now, easy maintenance, useful for all general "lighter and medium kitchen cutting tasks". If i want to get serious in the kitchen I will get out my shig 240 Gyuto or for even heavier tasks one of my much heavier knives.

I would prefer great food release but not at the expense of the knife being light, thin and nimble.

Now that I have run through my needs again, I really want a 180mm.

If I could find a wa Gyuto 180 Ginga I would grab it. As far as I am aware SIH doesn't come in 180 and I can only find the Takamura 180 in western handle.

So if nothing comes up I will have to grab a Ginga 210 as I don't think the SIH 210 is in stock anywhere.

I will keep looking.