Sujihiki & Gyuto 270mm wanted

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tehsan

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Hi everyone.

I just started working professionally in a Japanese restaurant and I want to become a sushi chef. I will be in Japan soon and I want to use the opportunity to get some new knives. I asked my teacher for advise on what kind of knife I should add to my inventory first and he told me to get a 270mm Gyuto and a 270mm Sujihiki. Would love some input on what knives to buy and where to get them in Tokyo. Thank you very much in advance.

LOCATION

Germany but I will be in Tokyo in September and want to buy the knives there.


KNIFE TYPE

Sujihiki and Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?

right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

I prefer a Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

270mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

not quite sure, Gyuto should be stainless not sure about the Sujihiki

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

200€ per knive

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

professional


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

synthehic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

yes
 
Should you really be looking for a gyuto if you want to be a sushi chef?
 
It may buck some purists, but I've seen many a sushi chef with gyutos
 
It seems that the hobbyists are much more beholden to the notion that single bevel knives produce superior cuts than are the professionals.

I would love to see the knife identification rate of a double-blind sushi slice-off.
 
Kappabashi in Tokyo seems to be an often recommended place to visit if you are looking for brick n' mortar shops and has many stores that cater to the chefs in Tokyo.

Another option would be to try ordering online and having something delivered to your hotel. I don't know if I am allowed to post links to other websites (if not, please modify this), but I know that I am able to order from manufacturers like Tojiro and Masamoto Sohonten via Amazon Japan and have it delivered to my apartment in Japan (you can try using google translate to get through the site and Amazon JP has an english button). Gyuto is [牛刀] and sujihiki is [筋引] in Japanese.

You can pay using their Cash on Delivery service and scheduled delivery service where you specify a time for delivery and hand over cash when they give you the package, but you wouldn't be able to handle the knife personally before you buy it.
 
As i am living in germany too, what about the Japanmessershop?

You are a chef in germany, trying to become a sushi chef?

If i only make sushi, out of whole fish, i would recommend a Yanagi and a Deba and maybe a petty to stay on double bevel knives, and no Meat/vedgi cutting tools.

Greets Sebastian.
 
If he's being trained by someone who suggested he buy a Suji and a gyuto it's definitely best if he buys those first.
 
well sujihiki and gyuto are completely different knifes. I'm under the impression Sushi chefs use Sujihikis for fish. I guess you can use Gyutos for all the other prepping, but I can't imagine slicing fish with a gyuto
 
I can imagine slicing rolls with a gyuto easily enough, and other basic prep as well. I'm not too familiar with prepping sushi, but it's a rare establishment that'll hand a beautiful, probably pricey fish to the new guy and tell him to go off and sashimi it up, por favor. If the OP is looking for knives to add to his kit "first", I can't say fairer than gyuto and sujihiki.

Also, if I went to any chef ever and said, "I know you told me to do X, but a guy on the Internet said do Y, so I did Y," I'm pretty sure it would end in at least tears, possibly blood. Chefs can be unreasonable like that.
 
I prefer suji myself, but if you're slicing thick sashimi slices from an already trimmed block or slicing rolls, gyuto is definitely adequate, and I've seen some chefs do almost everything with gyuto.
 
Oh yeah forgot that part, lol

I'm not really into the world of wa handle makers, but in going for a classic long time used by sushi chefs, one of the knives could be a Masamoto...
 
As a sushi chef myself, here's my recommendation.....
27cm suji is an excellent choice, I use 95% of my work with sujihiki, unless I have to deal with delicate and paper thin slice of fish that require fugubiki or yanagi, suji would do all the work. Now because I'm assuming that you just start at sushi bar, you have to deal with a lot of sushi rolls instead of sashimi, I would suggest a stainless steel suji or carbon with stainless cladding. Most of the carbon will give you a hard time because as you know there's a vinegar (sushi-su) on sushi rice.
Now gyutou for me is just an option, I used one before and now I sold all my gyutou because I can do all of the gyutou work with suji. Cutting sushi rolls is easier for me with the suji instead of gyutou because less dragging and friction. Another knife that you definitely need is a butcher knife like deba or yo-deba to break down the fish. This is the only task that you don't want to use your suji, such as beheading salmon head, red snapper, etc.
So if I want to get start with 2 knives to be use in sushi bar, I would get 27cm suji and 21cm deba. Then along the road after you've master the skills and it's time for you to deal with sashimi or nigiri, you can get 27/30cm yanagiba or fugubiki.
But again I'm not against your teacher, if he's your head sushi chef, you could trust him because he knows what's your daily basis job and prep work waiting for you better than me.
My final advice is not to think kiritsuke can replace all of the gyutou, suji, and yanagiba jobs. I see a lot of sushi chef thought this way, thinking kiritsuke is the ultimate multipurpose knife, and they regret the purchase.
 
Hello, i worked at sushi restaurant also. How the sujihiki deal with veg prep cutting then gyuto. I cut 3-4 quart daikon tsuma and 3 quart negi per 2 days. My miyabi 5000dp gyuto edge gone after prep. I had to sharpen the end of the day. How long the edge of sujihiki can stay?
 
The sujihiki deal the prep just fine with me as long as you got used to with the height of the blade when you do the push cut, knuckle clearance, etc.
Well how long the edge can stay has nothing to do with the type of the knife (gyutou vs suji) it's more about the edge retention of the steel, how you do the cut, and your cutting board.
 
Hello everybody. Thanks a lot for all the replies. I should have been
More clear about what I will be doing at work. I just started at this restaurant and I am not only doing sushi. I will be learning this while I do other work. I need to prep a lot of vegetables, chopping herbs, cutting some meat and so on, hence the gyoto.

My teacher uses a deba and a sujihiki for all his fish prep and this is what he recommended to me. He uses a yenagiba during service.

I talked to him again and he said maybe it is smarter to buy a suji and a deba in Japan since debas might be cheaper and can be found more easily. Gyotos can be found easily in Germany. I will need to see the prices in Japan. Maybe I can afford all 3.

Right now I have a 18cm santoku and a very small petty. 18cm sometimes feels to small during prep. I also have a cheap nakiri, which is sharp and cuts great but it's rusting ridiculously fast. Cutting red onions for example does not work at all. The onions will turn black from the first cut. I don't want to be changing my knives all day so I don't use it often.

Would love some more knive recommendations

Thank you
 
As i am living in germany too, what about the Japanmessershop?

You are a chef in germany, trying to become a sushi chef?

If i only make sushi, out of whole fish, i would recommend a Yanagi and a Deba and maybe a petty to stay on double bevel knives, and no Meat/vedgi cutting tools.

Greets Sebastian.

Japan messer shop is great but I would like to use the opportunity to buy a knive while I am Japan.

Greetings John
 
Honestly it's not very difficult to make these knives, the likelihood of you telling the shopkeeper that you are working in a washoku or sushi place should virtually guarantee you walk out of there with something that isn't a lemon. You'll probably find things we've never heard of...!
 
Hello everybody. Thanks a lot for all the replies. I should have been
More clear about what I will be doing at work. I just started at this restaurant and I am not only doing sushi. I will be learning this while I do other work. I need to prep a lot of vegetables, chopping herbs, cutting some meat and so on, hence the gyoto.

My teacher uses a deba and a sujihiki for all his fish prep and this is what he recommended to me. He uses a yenagiba during service.

I talked to him again and he said maybe it is smarter to buy a suji and a deba in Japan since debas might be cheaper and can be found more easily. Gyotos can be found easily in Germany. I will need to see the prices in Japan. Maybe I can afford all 3.

Right now I have a 18cm santoku and a very small petty. 18cm sometimes feels to small during prep. I also have a cheap nakiri, which is sharp and cuts great but it's rusting ridiculously fast. Cutting red onions for example does not work at all. The onions will turn black from the first cut. I don't want to be changing my knives all day so I don't use it often.

Would love some more knive recommendations

Thank you
Hello, I work at sushi restaurant 8 months. IMO get basic japanese single bevel set to learn. Try to learn make katsuramuki and push cut negi. Also pick up a gyuto or sujihiki should be good. I think if you can spend around 500$ plus stone should be set for couple yrs. If you can don't buy vg10 knife, try get semi carbon knife ginsanko steel. My vg10 gyuto only 1 day prep the edge gone already.
 
I will be learning this (sushi) while I do other work. I need to prep a lot of vegetables, chopping herbs, cutting some meat and so on, hence the gyuto.

My teacher uses a deba and a sujihiki for all his fish prep and this is what he recommended to me. He uses a yanagiba during service.

I talked to him again and he said maybe it is smarter to buy a suji and a deba in Japan since debas might be cheaper and can be found more easily. Gyutos can be found easily in Germany. I will need to see the prices in Japan. Maybe I can afford all 3.

Right now I have a 18cm santoku and a very small petty. 18cm sometimes feels to small during prep. I also have a cheap nakiri, which is sharp and cuts great but it's rusting ridiculously fast. Cutting red onions for example does not work at all. The onions will turn black from the first cut. I don't want to be changing my knives all day so I don't use it often...

Good point on availability of knives in Japan. Don't know anything about European duties/taxes but if you bring them back as "kitchen tools" you'll likely avoid most of that as well. Deba and Suji sound like a good combination for prep to me. Suji will be a little more robust than Yani. You'll find more avalability with white steel for Deba, and as it will be (should be) exclusive to fish you won't have to worry about reactivity. My debas are stainless - but almost all of my knives are stainless or stainless clad. Suji could go either stainless or carbon. If you can find a Yani you like, that also can be stainless or carbon.

A 180mm petty is the size I prefer for a petty. Imagine it would be a good knife to have on the line at sushi station for cutting rolls, decorative cuts of lemon and other misc tasks.

The Nakiri should be your best friend for prepping vegetables. Sounds like yours needs a patina to stop the rust or a replacement. I like stainless or stainless clad for Nakiri because of onions.

As far as steels I like Ginsanko a lot. Have a Deba and a Yani. SKD is a good one. VG-10 can be good, can suck. (like any other steel) I would not hestitate to consider Yoshihiro in VG-10 for any of your knives. In carbon, white steel seems to me to be more available on less expensive knives than blue.

Can't recommend much on specific brands because I don't know the Japan market. Would look for Yoshihiro as an inexpensive but solid brand with both white steel and VG-10 offerings. I owned a 300mm white steel yani that was a great value. Watanabe makes a highly regarded Nakiri Pro model that is around 200 usd and usually in stock. His other knives are well thought of as well.
 
Hello, i worked at sushi restaurant also. How the sujihiki deal with veg prep cutting then gyuto. I cut 3-4 quart daikon tsuma and 3 quart negi per 2 days. My miyabi 5000dp gyuto edge gone after prep. I had to sharpen the end of the day. How long the edge of sujihiki can stay?


Hello, I work at sushi restaurant 8 months. IMO get basic japanese single bevel set to learn. Try to learn make katsuramuki and push cut negi. Also pick up a gyuto or sujihiki should be good. I think if you spend around 500$ plus stone should be set for couple yrs. If you can don't buy vg10 knife, try get semi carbon knife ginsanko steel. My vg10 gyuto only 1 day prep the edge gone already.

Teenowen,

I posted on your knife thread that your difficulty with holding an edge is more likely due to the knife being Miyabi, designed for housewives to impress their neighbors, designed to compete with Shun, Not designed for ease of sharpening or extensive use. As knives go, IMO, they are crap. They do have that sexy undersized handle with the red spacers though.

Since posting about my experience with them I've remembered I have used their Yanagiba for many sushi classes. We have 3 house "sushi" knives, 2 Shun and 1 Miyabi Yani. All are a biatch to sharpen, very abrasion resistant treatment of VG-10. None have a concave back.

The gyuto, and suji have such a low profile (prob not the right description) that with my large hands they are awkward to use for push cutting, difficult for slicing and impossible for chopping.

Between the knife, the steel treatment, the low profile and the difficulty to sharpen, me thinks the problem is not so much the VG-10. If you are starting with a sharp knife that dulls quickly you may also want to look at threads discussing a "wire edge".

Friends don't let friends buy Henckels sushi knives.
 
I just want to drop by and encourage you to buy what your teacher is recommending. If nobody at your work uses or knows how to maintain kataba knives youre going to be on your own as far as learning goes. Do as master tells you :p
 
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