Gyuto 240-270

Hello, everyone.

I'm looking a gyuto for home use. I'm not a even an amateur chef just regular person that wants a sharp and nice looking knife. I understand that for my kitchen needs a victorinox would suffice but as I can afford something nicer and I'm a Japanese culture enthusiast I wanted to buy a Japanese knife.

LOCATION

Australia

KNIFE TYPE

Gyuto

Left-handed but girlfriend is R handed and she will use it as well with my permission

Japanese handle

Length between 240-270mm

Stainless steel

Probably want to spend around 150 usd but if there something really great above that price I can do 200 (I'm limited ,in terms of money, by my cheapness rather than anything else )


KNIFE USE

Home use

mostly meat slicing and trimming as well as cutting tuna for sushi, also limited use for slicing vegetables and all around kitchen work.

Replacing cheap kitchen knife from IKEA

No particular grip

Cutting motion - slice

Characteristics - Damascus/layered , stain resistance, well balanced, better handle, preferably use right out of box, smooth slicing and better food release, relatively easy to sharpen with reasonable edge Retention


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
I use wood, synthetic cutting boards

Do you sharpen your own knives? no

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? Yes

I'm planning to buy a 1000 grit water stone from Shapton

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I understand that most knives would do the job but I'm interested a in aesthetics thus I wanted a Damascus pattern and also due to my cheapness I love things that have a great price to value ratio.


Thanks for all the input.

Given the various parameters you describe, I'd recommend for you a knife like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221565546295

This OEM knife is sold under various different brands...I have one from the western handle hammered damascus VG-10 version, and it's a pretty solid knife for the money.

If you had double the budget, I'd be pointing you towards a Takamura Hana

I'd suggest looking at Tanaka from James @ Knivesandstones in Aus...and Welcome to kkf!

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-bubinga-handle/

Is the Tanaka mostly symmetric?

Most every Japanese knife is somewhat asymmetric...I believe the Tanaka to be less extreme than others. It is a very good knife for the money.

That the Tanaka is a good knife I don't doubt from all I've heard. I didn't know about the level of symmetry.

FYI tapion the one I recommended is symmetric grind with a 60/40 edge, can be easily maintained to 50/50.

Takamura and Ryusen (though neither are in budget) are symmetric 50/50, and the grind is done well.

richard said:

Given the various parameters you describe, I'd recommend for you a knife like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221565546295

This OEM knife is sold under various different brands...I have one from the western handle hammered damascus VG-10 version, and it's a pretty solid knife for the money.

If you had double the budget, I'd be pointing you towards a Takamura Hana

Click to expand...

Is this the same as the JCK Inazuma?

+1 on the Tanaka.

It's a high performance cutter from a very reputable bladesmith. His work of the vg10 stainless steel is thought to be one of the best and the polished damascus is very striking in person. Ticks every single box you mentioned. From K&S you can get it with very nice handle too and from your neck of the woods to boot.

Oops, the chinacats recommendation wasn't the damascus version I was referring to and the damascus vg10 doesn't seem to be in stock, but both are great! :doublethumbsup:

chinacats said:

I'd suggest looking at Tanaka from James @ Knivesandstones in Aus...and Welcome to kkf!

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-bubinga-handle/

Click to expand...

Is the 210mm version usually "enough" for house work, is there much advantage in 240-270mm size?

K&S only have the 210mm in stock.

tapionmajin2 said:

Is this the same as the JCK Inazuma?

Click to expand...

Yeah and about half a dozen other names. The handles can vary over time or with the brand, but it's the same blade. JCK lists it as VG-10, and at one point it was, the maker also switched to 19C27 at one point, and now is using AUS-10 (the yo/western handle blade has stayed VG-10 apparently).

FWIW when I talked to the owner of Portland/Phoenix knife house, who also sells these (forgot under which name), he likes the AUS-10 version over the 19C27 (which at some point he stopped carrying until the most recent steel switch).

210 is enough for most home jobs, but if you're going to have only one knife for a while due to budget and you have the board/kitchen space, I'd say get a 240.

I'll probably skip the generic one and rather pay more for something better.

Are there any other vendors with Tanaka in Australia that would have the 240mm version?

The Tanakas are very good knives, I have the blue 2 and Nashiji myself.

If you want a step up in capability, then this is better in all respects:

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-suminagashi-r2-damascus-gyuto-240mm-by-shiro-kamo/

The R2 steel holds an edge significantly longer, the knife is thinner, but by no means a laser, and is a better cutter.
I have one of these knives too, and it is seriously good.

Length is a matter of preference, 210 will do what you need, but after using a 240 for a while you appreciate the extra length, or maybe not ;-)

My personal preference is 260.

Whereby in ozz are you?

+1 for the Shiro Kamo R2 damascus and to everything kevpenbanc said about it. I haven't used one, but would like to. It's a very respected performer and gets much love. I have two knives from Kamo and they're great. I really need to get a R2 steel knife soon!

There are very few vendors selling Tanakas anywhere.

James seems to have good relations with them, send him an email if you want a Tanaka.
You may have to wait a little for what you want.
I do believe he's got a new korouchi line of Tanakas awaiting handles.

Metal master are the only other retailer I can think of, there's probably a few more around.

tapionmajin2 said:

I'll probably skip the generic one and rather pay more for something better.

Are there any other vendors with Tanaka in Australia that would have the 240mm version?

Click to expand...

I've used Metalmaster a couple of times. Prices are very good, but his shipments takes several weeks and there's absolutely no communication or customer service. The Tanakas he sells are not as well finished and wa handles are quite rough compared to what K&S offers which seems to be flawless.

But Metalmaster has been dependable every time and I'm guessing that the shipments could be faster to Australia.

kevpenbanc said:

The Tanakas are very good knives, I have the blue 2 and Nashiji myself.

If you want a step up in capability, then this is better in all respects:

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-suminagashi-r2-damascus-gyuto-240mm-by-shiro-kamo/

The R2 steel holds an edge significantly longer, the knife is thinner, but by no means a laser, and is a better cutter.
I have one of these knives too, and it is seriously good.

Length is a matter of preference, 210 will do what you need, but after using a 240 for a while you appreciate the extra length, or maybe not ;-)

My personal preference is 260.

Whereby in ozz are you?

Click to expand...

That is a beautiful blade! I'll have to consider it.

I'm actually ok to pay bit more if the blade is nice looking. Do you know any other blades that look as nice in similar price range?

I'm from Perth

JaVa said:

I've used Metalmaster a couple of times. Prices are very good, but his shipments takes several weeks and there's absolutely no communication or customer service. The Tanakas he sells are not as well finished and wa handles are quite rough compared to what K&S offers which seems to be flawless.

But Metalmaster has been dependable every time and I'm guessing that the shipments could be faster to Australia.

Click to expand...

Looks like metal master has them in stock

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product/645

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product/458

Regarding symmetry, this is the Tanaka 240 blue two damascus I got from MetalMaster a few months ago...

240TG Aug 16 with centre line by Steven_D_B, on Flickr

There are other blades around which are damascus, but they tend to be VG10, or similar.

I'm not aware of any other powdered steel equivalents. Takamura have the Hana line, a very nice looking R2 knife, but I'm not aware of a 240 option, only 210.

The Shiro Kamo is very good value for money, and a seriously good knife - looks are a bonus.

Browsing the Japanese Chefs Knives website will give you an idea of the range of knives available.


I actually bought my Tanaka blue 2 from metal master, as JaVa stated there is no communication, but it does arrive. You would probably be better off selecting EMS over SAL for postage - quicker.

tapionmajin2 said:

That is a beautiful blade! I'll have to consider it.

I'm actually ok to pay bit more if the blade is nice looking. Do you know any other blades that look as nice in similar price range?

I'm from Perth

Click to expand...

Yep, The wa handled one is the one I have except with the plastic ferrule instead of the buffalo horn ferrule . You will probably need to sand down some sharp edges from the spine in front off the handle and the choil too, to add comfort to a pinch grip.

Mine had a decent size step where the ferrule and wood meet. I just sanded it down. Although the buffalo ferrule version looks to be flush in the pictures, but not sure. Nothing to worry about, but just aheads up so it won't come as a surprise.

JaVa said:

Yep, The wa handled one is the one I have except with the plastic ferrule instead of the buffalo horn ferrule . You will probably need to sand down some sharp edges from the spine in front off the handle and the choil too, to add comfort to a pinch grip.

Mine had a decent size step where the ferrule and wood meet. I just sanded it down. Although the buffalo ferrule version looks to be flush in the pictures, but not sure. Nothing to worry about, but just aheads up so it won't come as a surprise.

Click to expand...

My experience was:

- no issues with rough edges on the blade;

- blade was not perfectly straight (but easily bent back into straightness);

- same as JaVa, ho wood not flush with plastic ferrule. Same as JaVa, I just sanded it down, and the result is nice.

I should add to my symmetry photo above, that using a ruler to inspect the blade from spine to edge all the way from heel to tip suggests that it is a more or less symmetrical grind.

This does not seem to negatively affect cutting performance, I have been entirely satisfied with that!

Is the R2 better than VG10?

And in terms of kurouchi finish is there something interesting?

This is what I found interesting on K&S (apart from Tanaka and Shiro)

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syou...-aogami-super-stainless-cladding-by-kurosaki/

In general R2 is better. If money is no object, I'd go with the Shiro Kamo R2, but if you're hesitant to go over budget I'm sure you would enjoy the Tanaka.

Both knives represent exceptional value for $.

That Kurosaki looks good. It's a carbon steel core blade though not ss, so the edge will patina and can rust if abused. I have no experience with Kurosaki, but I'm interested about his stuff. In this case the kurouchi finish is there only for visual effect. The KU is usually left (sometimes added) on a carbon blade to add protection against corrosion. But it's a stainless cladded knife so no actual purpose other than maybe some added food release.

Yup.
In my experience you get a sharper edge, and it holds an edge considerably longer.

Steel aside, the geometry (cross section of the blade) is also much better on the Shiro Kamo than the Tanaka Nashiji and blue 2 that I have. I don't have the Tanaka VG10 damascus so I cannot speak for that.

The Kamo is a thinner knife, good grind.

Don't get me wrong, the Tanakas are excellent blades and you'll no doubt be very happy with them.
The Kamo is just a step change in performance.

tapionmajin2 said:

Is the R2 better than VG10?

And in terms of kurouchi finish is there something interesting?

This is what I found interesting on K&S (apart from Tanaka and Shiro)

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syou...-aogami-super-stainless-cladding-by-kurosaki/

Click to expand...

So is the kurouchi added only to carbon steel and not to SS?

The Kurosaki is stainkess clad with a carbon core.
In this case the kurochi is on stainless.

tapionmajin2 said:

So is the kurouchi added only to carbon steel and not to SS?

Click to expand...

So is the edge stainless steel or carbon? And if only the core (not the edge as well) is carbon what does that do for the knife?