Building up my first knife set, looking for help/advice :)

LOCATION
What country are you in?: USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?: Currently I am looking at any and all different kinds. Definitely a chef's knife and santoku to start. Since I prep a lot of vegetables, perhaps a nakiri as well. In short, I am looking for pretty much everything, but definitely starting with a chef and santoku.

Are you right or left handed?: Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?: Forgive my ignorance, but I'm mot sure I really know the difference- are Japanese handles more rounded? This seems to be the only difference in handles I notice when browsing. If so, then I suppose I am not fussy.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?: Standard chef's- 8 inches, santoku- 7 inches, anything else... well, it depends on the knife I guess.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no): Require? No... preferred? Yes.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?: I don't currently have a lot of money to spare, so absolute maximum is about $40 for the right knife, but I'd really like to not go above $30. The $100+ knives will have to wait for some other time.


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?: Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.): Everything- except we don't deal with anything on the bone or filleting. But everything else- yes.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?: Not replacing- simply looking to build up my first kit.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.): I switch between pinch and pointing, depending on the task.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)' I use all interchangeably, but top three are probably push, slice and chop.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?: Aesthetics aren't so important, though a full-tang/riveted blade is preferred, and something that won't stain or rust.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?: Comfort is important with the amount of food preparation I have to do (anywhere from 300-1,000 students daily). I want a lighter knife, but not something "cheap". A heavier knife would seem to me to be more durable, but again, with all the prep, I also don't want to tire myself out after just a few minutes of use.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?: Perhaps most important for me is better food release. Nothing is more of a pain in the rear than having to hand-cut 50lbs of potato wedges and having to stop and wipe the wedges from my blade every time I make a cut.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?: The longer the better, but I don't mind having to pull out a whetstone every day if I have to.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.): Synthetic (plastic)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.): Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.): ----

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.): I have a Wustof 4-stage sharpener, great for quick sharpening jobs. But I am currently looking into getting myself a whetstone for a better, sharper edge, and more control over sharpening in general.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Bevel- The main difference I notice between western and Japanese knives is the bevel. Many Japanese knives are single bevel. In my research, it is suggested single bevel knives provide a cleaner, more precise cut than double bevel, and are generally sharper. But my only experience is with double bevel knives. Which do you suggest/prefer? Or is it just a matter of preference?

I currently have 6 of my own knives, but they aren't the greatest and would like to upgrade to something better. I have a chef and santoku I bought from Wal*Mart- about $12 each, so nothing fancy; a couple of cheap Japanese knives- a nakiri and banno (the banno I figured would be perfect for all the chicken slicing I do)- but the handles are made of unfinished wood which was not mentioned anywhere in the product description or reviews. So I worry about the handle collecting odors and worse, bacteria. Plus I can't soak it down completely when washing, as I worry the wood will eventually rot. I also own a couple of Kai Wasabi knives, a chef's and santoku which I read nothing but glowing reviews for and am hoping they'll be a decent replacement for my cheap Wal*Mart buy. But I'm stuck on single bevel vs. double bevel... I like the precision of single bevel, but it's hard to find a quick knife sharpener for single bevel, Asian-style blades that allows you to control which side to sharpen. So if a knife gets dull in the middle of service- I'd have to set up a whetstone, which is just not an option.

$30? Not going to get anything good for that price. About the cheapest thing I could recommend is the tojiro dp 210mm gyuto. That's about $65 on Amazon right now.

Victoronox fibrox 8 inch chef is the cheapest good knife money can buy. $40ish

Yeah, for your budget I can't think of anything serviceable other than a Victorinox Fibrox.

Thank you everybody for your responses. I checked out the Victorinox and it looks very similar to the knives already provided by my employer- which is what I'm trying to move away from. And the Tojiro's are beautiful, great reviews- except on the chef's knife mentioned, there is an imperfection at the heel of the knife and I would have no way of sharpening it off. Not to mention, it is out of my price range for the moment.

So, I just want to make sure I understand- unless I can afford to drop $200-$500 on a single knife, should I just forget about ever trying to buy my own knives? There's no way I could ever afford that. If a $60 [starter] knife seems impossible to afford, I can't imagine dropping more on a knife- unless I were to ever get a raise, and well... that's another discussion entirely, lol. Should I just give up?

Not a J-knife, but a heavy western knife at that price would be the 7" Henckels 4 Star chefs knife. The major kitchenware stores (Williams Sonoma, Sur la Table, Cutlery & More) have it for $40 as part of Henckels' 40-year anniversary special. WS and C&M periodically run 20% off sales with Henckels included in the discount, so that makes the price $32.

The least expensive, reasonably good J-knife may be the Tojiro DP. The 8" chefs knife goes for $56 if you catch a 20% off sale at C&M.

Spyce said:

And the Tojiro's are beautiful, great reviews- except on the chef's knife mentioned, there is an imperfection at the heel of the knife and I would have no way of sharpening it off. Not to mention, it is out of my price range for the moment.

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I've bought quite a few of those tojiro gyutos for friends or employees and none of them had that defect. I'd consider that a fluke and wouldn't worry about it.

Spyce said:

So, I just want to make sure I understand- unless I can afford to drop $200-$500 on a single knife, should I just forget about ever trying to buy my own knives? There's no way I could ever afford that. If a $60 [starter] knife seems impossible to afford, I can't imagine dropping more on a knife- unless I were to ever get a raise, and well... that's another discussion entirely, lol. Should I just give up?

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Yes and no... Yes, in regard that buying more 20-40$ knifes when you already own a Kai Wasabi chefs knife & santoku won't net you anything. You won't see any huge increase in cutting performance or edge retention, given that the grind of the Wasabi isn't terrible and any stainless blade in that price range will most likely use the same (or a similar) kind of steel, with a low/mid-range hardness.

No, because even as a pro you don't have to spend 200$ or even go as high as 500. As it has been mentioned, the Tojiro DP is a good example for a reasonable <100$ knife. A Carbonext isn't a bad option in the <150$ range, or the gesshin stainless from JKI...

If I were you I'd rather start with getting rid of that Wüsthof sharpener first and replace it with a wetstone. Try sharpening the Wasabi you have on a it and if that still doesn't fulfil your needs at work, save up some money.

But buying more inexpensive knife on top of the ones you already have doesn't sound like a smart plan to me. I'm not a pro myself, but the owner of the place I work part-time as a waiter and I gifted the junior cook with a 210 Tojiro and it was a serious upgrade to the "walmart-quality" knifes he called his own.

Bingo!

The Wusthof Pro Series was (probably) conceived as a direct run at VNox. They take a decent edge and are easy to use. I've given a couple to promising young cooks as their first knife. The 8 inch comes in at 30, (though I've seem them on promotional at 24.95) the 10 inch not much more.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008GRUP86/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The difference between these and the POS "house" knives you've used is it's almost certainly better steel, it's not been beat to crap by users before you, and it's yet to open the first can. If you can't or don't want to drop coin on the Torijo, this will get you started.

No knife suggestions from me, but I wanted to add that you can wash the handles of the cheap Japanese knives you already have. The grain may rise from the wood due to absorbing moisture, but there is nothing harmful about it. I would dry them with towels immediately after washing. You can also condition the wood once a week (or more or less as needed) with cheap food grade mineral oil from the pharmacy section of the supermarket, Walmart, or Target. It'll be labeled as a laxative, but I use it for wood knife handles and wood cutting boards.

Just spread some of the mineral oil on with your fingers and let it soak in for thirty minutes to overnight, whatever's convenient. Then wipe off with a clean towel. It really revives any old dried out wood quite nicely.

Karnstein said:

If I were you I'd rather start with getting rid of that Wüsthof sharpener first and replace it with a wetstone. Try sharpening the Wasabi you have on a it and if that still doesn't fulfil your needs at work, save up some money.

But buying more inexpensive knife on top of the ones you already have doesn't sound like a smart plan to me. I'm not a pro myself, but the owner of the place I work part-time as a waiter and I gifted the junior cook with a 210 Tojiro and it was a serious upgrade to the "walmart-quality" knifes he called his own.

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I found a whetstone that I'd like to order when I get paid this week so I have something to sharpen my Kai's. Should have gotten that instead of the sharpener in the first place- but, as I mentioned before, sometimes I need quick sharpening job in the middle of service. But it turns out the sharpener doesn't even work for the Kai's- it has a double bevel asian sharpener, but not single bevel/individual left & right side sharpening slots. Perhaps I should just forgo the Asian knives for now and just focus on the western style.

I understand that buying more inexpensive knives isn't the best option, but I'm just looking to start out. I've already considered selling all the knives I have now and just starting fresh. I don't want "cheap" knives, just the best I can get for my dollar/price range. Maybe, some day, I will be able to afford single $100-$200 knives, but today just isn't that day.

daveb said:

Bingo!

The Wusthof Pro Series was (probably) conceived as a direct run at VNox. They take a decent edge and are easy to use. I've given a couple to promising young cooks as their first knife. The 8 inch comes in at 30, (though I've seem them on promotional at 24.95) the 10 inch not much more.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008GRUP86/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The difference between these and the POS "house" knives you've used is it's almost certainly better steel, it's not been beat to crap by users before you, and it's yet to open the first can. If you can't or don't want to drop coin on the Torijo, this will get you started.

Click to expand...

I'll have to check those out. Name doesn't always mean everything (though who wouldn't love a decent set of Wustofs, Henckels, Shuns, etc?), but knowing that I can get a name brand at a lower price, it's certainly not a bad starting point. Then, as time and finances permit, I can replace each knife as needed. I see they have a set on Amazon for around $95, which is just under $24 each. Again, as a starting point, it doesn't seem so bad. I wish I could afford the more expensive knives, but I just need something of my own. When the provided knives have a hard time even slicing onions or tomatoes... it's time to take things into my own hands

milkbaby said:

No knife suggestions from me, but I wanted to add that you can wash the handles of the cheap Japanese knives you already have. The grain may rise from the wood due to absorbing moisture, but there is nothing harmful about it. I would dry them with towels immediately after washing. You can also condition the wood once a week (or more or less as needed) with cheap food grade mineral oil from the pharmacy section of the supermarket, Walmart, or Target. It'll be labeled as a laxative, but I use it for wood knife handles and wood cutting boards.

Just spread some of the mineral oil on with your fingers and let it soak in for thirty minutes to overnight, whatever's convenient. Then wipe off with a clean towel. It really revives any old dried out wood quite nicely.

Click to expand...

Will this help to smooth out the wood so it's not so rough? Would it also eventually condition the wood to where it's not as porous- like building up a protective layer on the wood?

If you are willing to spend about $30 on a gyuto and $30 on a santoku, might I suggest they both do the same thing and you don't need both as that would be redundant. Just combine the cash and there's your gyuto purchase.

No you really don't have to drop over 200$ for a good knife, But a little more than 30$ would help though.

You mentioned wanting to start collecting your own knife set and already mentioned santoku, chef knife and a nakiri. You also said you'd like to start with the chef and santoku. What I would do instead is concentrate more on quality not quantity. I know it's fun to build a set of knives, but it's much more important to get a one very good one than many mediocre ones.

With that in mind, the most important knife you'll ever buy for pro use is your chef knife (or gyuto). It's said that you do 90% of your work with that. (I do about 95% or more). It's a versatile utility knife that does it all very well. I can go for weeks at work with one gyuto and never missing other knives.

So if you were about to buy 2-3 knives costing about 30-40$, then you should have budget for a 60-120$ chef knife. That gets you significant upgrade from what you got now.

There's some quality options like the Tojiro DP (about 60-70$), Mac Superior gyuto (about 60-70$), Fujiwara FKM (about 70-80$) and Tanaka VG10 (from metalmaster 95$). I promise you'll enjoy any of these and they work great in a pro kitchen. I have several colleagues with some of these. And since your on a budget 210mm size is a good compromise. They're cheaper then their 240mm bigger brothers, but big enough serve you well.

After you got the chef's knife acquired you can start saving up for the other styles.

Couple of other pointers. I'm personally not a fan of santokus. It's kind of a hybrid knife of a gyuto and a nakiri. It's a compromise that doesn't do anything that well. I actually think a gyuto does everything better than a santoku, even veg prep. Then again a Nakiri is a much better option for veg work than a santoku.

So essentially a gyuto and a nakiri makes santoku completely redundant. I would replace it in your set with a petty which is a small utility knife that doubles as a parer.

Whoops, it seems ThEoRy beat me to it with the: dropping the Santoku and getting a better gyuto instead. :doublethumbsup:

ThEoRy said:

If you are willing to spend about $30 on a gyuto and $30 on a santoku, might I suggest they both do the same thing and you don't need both as that would be redundant. Just combine the cash and there's your gyuto purchase.

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I found a DP set on Amazon for $95- the gyoto and a paring knife. So out of my price range it's not funny- but, if I am patient, give myself a couple more weeks to save up- it may be a possibility, and they would probably be better than Wustof Pro's mentioned previously.

JaVa said:

No you really don't have to drop over 200$ for a good knife, But a little more than 30$ would help though.

You mentioned wanting to start collecting your own knife set and already mentioned santoku, chef knife and a nakiri. You also said you'd like to start with the chef and santoku. What I would do instead is concentrate more on quality not quantity. I know it's fun to build a set of knives, but it's much more important to get a one very good one than many mediocre ones.

With that in mind, the most important knife you'll ever buy for pro use is your chef knife (or gyuto). It's said that you do 90% of your work with that. (I do about 95% or more). It's a versatile utility knife that does it all very well. I can go for weeks at work with one gyuto and never missing other knives.

So if you were about to buy 2-3 knives costing about 30-40$, then you should have budget for a 60-120$ chef knife. That gets you significant upgrade from what you got now.

There's some quality options like the Tojiro DP (about 60-70$), Mac Superior gyuto (about 60-70$), Fujiwara FKM (about 70-80$) and Tanaka VG10 (from metalmaster 95$). I promise you'll enjoy any of these and they work great in a pro kitchen. I have several colleagues with some of these. And since your on a budget 210mm size is a good compromise. They're cheaper then their 240mm bigger brothers, but big enough serve you well.

After you got the chef's knife acquired you can start saving up for the other styles.

Couple of other pointers. I'm personally not a fan of santokus. It's kind of a hybrid knife of a gyuto and a nakiri. It's a compromise that doesn't do anything that well. I actually think a gyuto does everything better than a santoku, even veg prep. Then again a Nakiri is a much better option for veg work than a santoku.

So essentially a gyuto and a nakiri makes santoku completely redundant. I would replace it in your set with a petty which is a small utility knife that doubles as a parer.

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You make a good point- about forgoing the santoku. I don't use them often, but my boss let me use his for a full day once and I really liked how well it worked. And since I do a lot of veg prep, I figured it would be a good addition to any future collection. But now that you mention it, if I have a gyoto and nakiri- why get a santoku as well? It would only be taking up space.

No need to rush it- I think I'll opt for a gyoto/chef's knife and a paring knife to start and then go from there. No need to rush in building up my collection, it's not like I'm leaving the profession any time soon

Spyce said:

I found a DP set on Amazon for $95- the gyoto and a paring knife. So out of my price range it's not funny- but, if I am patient, give myself a couple more weeks to save up- it may be a possibility, and they would probably be better than Wustof Pro's mentioned previously.

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If it is saving up for another couple weeks or even a couple months, then please just do that. Otherwise you're just wasting time asking for unrealistic things.

richard said:

If it is saving up for another couple weeks or even a couple months, then please just do that. Otherwise you're just wasting time asking for unrealistic things.

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I'm so sorry for asking. As a newcomer to the knife scene, that's why I came here. Looking for help, suggestions. I wouldn't have come to the conclusion I finally have if I hadn't taken the time to ask, even if, in your opinion, I am wasting peoples' time. After all, isn't that what the more experienced knife owners are here for? To offer their help, knowledge and expertise?

I did not know it was impossible to find a decent knife for less than say $50. I have gone on the pretense of what my boss and co-workers have told me, and that is, you can find great knives for anywhere from $15-$30, that will last a long time, with proper care. So initially my goal in coming here was to find out which knives fit this bill. Would they be comparable to $5,000 Bob Kramer knives or even $100 Shuns? No, but that's why I prefaced my post with "first knife set". I am not looking to drop serious coin. Maybe for some people $75 or $150 is nothing for a decent knife. But on my pay, it is.

And if your opinion is that I am wasting time- then might I ask you to please refrain from commenting any further in this post. Some people are kind and more than willing to help- and I thank them profusely If I am wasting your time though, and the most help you can offer is to criticize me for asking for help... then please... do not allow me to waste any more of your time. There will be no need or you to come back here. However, if you have something useful to add to the conversation, I am all ears

Spyce said:

Will this help to smooth out the wood so it's not so rough? Would it also eventually condition the wood to where it's not as porous- like building up a protective layer on the wood?

Click to expand...

The roughness is from the wood grain standing up by swelling from the moisture. As you wash it the little fibers sticking up will eventually mostly disappear and the handle will be smooth again. The mineral oil soaks into the wood and keeps too much water from soaking in and also conditions the wood. I usually use a homemade mineral oil and beeswax paste on my handles. I gently heat up about 4 to 1 or 5 to 1 radio 2 of mineral oil to beeswax (all food grade), let it cool, then rub on. The beeswax helps seal up the wood from water.

Some people supposedly prefer the rough handles so their grip is better when the handle gets wet during work.

There is a good quote about buying tools that is good for this situation "buy once cry once" as this knife will be the most import tool you be using for quite some time. Save up for the month or however long you need and get the 240 torijo so. It will be all the knife you need for quite some time. How often do you really use a paring/petty knife? Just use the house paring knife until you get a raise and can buy another knife. You will be using this knife all day at work everyday. Your knife will most likely be the best knife in the restaurant. For $75 on amazon.

Spyce said:

I'm so sorry for asking. As a newcomer to the knife scene, that's why I came here. Looking for help, suggestions. I wouldn't have come to the conclusion I finally have if I hadn't taken the time to ask, even if, in your opinion, I am wasting peoples' time. After all, isn't that what the more experienced knife owners are here for? To offer their help, knowledge and expertise?

I did not know it was impossible to find a decent knife for less than say $50. I have gone on the pretense of what my boss and co-workers have told me, and that is, you can find great knives for anywhere from $15-$30, that will last a long time, with proper care. So initially my goal in coming here was to find out which knives fit this bill. Would they be comparable to $5,000 Bob Kramer knives or even $100 Shuns? No, but that's why I prefaced my post with "first knife set". I am not looking to drop serious coin. Maybe for some people $75 or $150 is nothing for a decent knife. But on my pay, it is.

And if your opinion is that I am wasting time- then might I ask you to please refrain from commenting any further in this post. Some people are kind and more than willing to help- and I thank them profusely If I am wasting your time though, and the most help you can offer is to criticize me for asking for help... then please... do not allow me to waste any more of your time. There will be no need or you to come back here. However, if you have something useful to add to the conversation, I am all ears

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Dude, slow down. I'm not criticizing you, but merely pointing out (perhaps a bit bluntly) that it seems to me you're all over the place and you're not seeing the forest for the trees. You're going off into these details wondering about single bevels, reading out small knitpicks on one Amazon review about the Tojiro DP, taking the time and effort to retort back with bringing up a Bob Kramer (and the fact they go for thousands of dollars), when in your own words you say that if you are patient and save up for a couple weeks, you might find yourself in the position of possibility getting a Tojiro that you think may be quite a bit better than what you're used to using right now (and yes it would be).

No one is saying that you have to throw down over $100-200 for each knife and wanting to project some kind of elitism here against anyone on a tight budget, but my suggestion is that you may need to step back, think and possibly re-prioritize, so that you can hopefully come to fact that you need to spend more than $30 on your main chef knife. Otherwise, you will be spending your money to end up buying $30 knives similar to the ones provided by your employer, which are the kind of knives you are trying to move away from (your own words).

Spyce-

I will jump in with my 2 cents: if you are serious about your job and staying in the kitchen for the next handful of years then you should really pinch your pennies until you can pick up a solid entry level performing knife (Tojiro DP or Fujiwara) and a starter combo stone (King). A good consistently sharp knife will take your prep skills to a whole different level. Prep will be fun, quick and precise. To save money focus on a single knife. A 240mm gyuto over a 210mm would be ideal. Myself and quite a few people around here started with Tojiro DP years ago and we still recommend them. I have used mine extensively. I still will pull mine out from time to time and would never think to sell it. I have too much time invested in a recent overhaul .

Cheers,
rj

skewed said:

Spyce-

I will jump in with my 2 cents: if you are serious about your job and staying in the kitchen for the next handful of years then you should really pinch your pennies until you can pick up a solid entry level performing knife (Tojiro DP or Fujiwara) and a starter combo stone (King). A good consistently sharp knife will take your prep skills to a whole different level. Prep will be fun, quick and precise. To save money focus on a single knife. A 240mm gyuto over a 210mm would be ideal. Myself and quite a few people around here started with Tojiro DP years ago and we still recommend them. I have used mine extensively. I still will pull mine out from time to time and would never think to sell it. I have too much time invested in a recent overhaul .

Cheers,
rj

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After reading through this thread, I think skewed nailed it. There's a lot of overlap in chef, santoku, nakiri. Just get the chef, and get a better one, even if that means saving up. You can get by with cheap (Forschner or other) paring knives for quite a while. Go for the Tojiro DP set if you want, but it seems the chef should be a much higher priority, and deserve the bulk of your budget.

On Amazon, I'm seeing $65 for the Tojiro DP 210, $75 for the 240, and $99 for the 210 and paring set. That set means you're paying $35 for the paring knife. I can't see someone on a tight budget spending that much more for the parer. If those are truly beyond your budget, even with some time to save up a bit, why not ask your boss and co-workers about their recs for those $15-30 knives?

You've already gotten the standard recommendations for the sub-$100 knives here, with the possible exception of Tramontina that I occasionally see mentioned.

You could always put some kind of wood finish on the handles of some of your current knives. Tung oil would work fine, just be careful what you pick, as there is a range of ingredients depending on the brand.

Good luck

I agree with the above - save up until you can affort a gyuto like the Tojiro DP and a water stones (King 1000/6000 would be price-wise a good choice). It does not make sense to buy a better knife and do not have the ability to sharpen it properly.

ThEoRy said:

I've bought quite a few of those tojiro gyutos for friends or employees and none of them had that defect. I'd consider that a fluke and wouldn't worry about it.

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Same here, The Tojiro DP 3 piece set was my first go round with J-Knives. $135 for 210 Gyuto, 80 and 150 petty. I have since gifted sets and singles to friends and none of them were flawed either.

Matus said:

I agree with the above - save up until you can affort a gyuto like the Tojiro DP and a water stones (King 1000/6000 would be price-wise a good choice). It does not make sense to buy a better knife and do not have the ability to sharpen it properly.

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Another +1 for this recommendation. Especially if it only takes a few more weeks to get there, it will be worth the wait.

Another option would be to place a want to buy "WTB" thread in the buy/sell/trade subforum and see what people may have that they are willing to sell for an entry level gyuto. You may be able to get the same knives for a few bucks less and in perfectly usable shape. You'll just need to wait until you have enough posts (without posting useless things just to up the count, that doesn't go over well in this crowd).

Matus said:

I agree with the above - save up until you can affort a gyuto like the Tojiro DP and a water stones (King 1000/6000 would be price-wise a good choice). It does not make sense to buy a better knife and do not have the ability to sharpen it properly.

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lus1:

You can pick up a King 1000/6000 new from Amazon right now for under $30. You might be able to get a used one even cheaper on the BST forum here. Don't expect to be able to put a hair whittling edge on those $12 knives with it, but you can practice sharpening on what you've got while you save up for a knife. I would guess that you could get a used Tojiro 240 gyuto from the BST forum here for ~$60.

CompE said:

You can pick up a King 1000/6000 new from Amazon right now for under $30. You might be able to get a used one even cheaper on the BST forum here. Don't expect to be able to put a hair whittling edge on those $12 knives with it, but you can practice sharpening on what you've got while you save up for a knife. I would guess that you could get a used Tojiro 240 gyuto from the BST forum here for ~$60.

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I have a King 1000/6000 stone (cheap from Amazon) and it put a really sharp edge on a relatively inexpensive ($65) Japanese knife I got from ebay that was really dull out of the box. And I'm a newbie to freehand waterstone sharpening! If you save up a few weeks of pay, you'll be shocked how much better performing a sharpened Tojiro DP will be compared to a cheapo knife.