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Thread: Whole rib eye recipes wanted

  1. #21
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    Great videos Rick.

    Can I ask the change in how you rolled and portion the spinalis dorsi was that purely done because of a change of purpose?

    Also think i will just tie them up like you, meat glue is probably hard to come by here. Also some prelim reading says people with gluten issues may have problems with it and i have a few friends which have quite high intolerances to gluten.

    I'm thinking for this dinner party i might give this a go amd may debate on sous viding the prime rib or roasting ala Mucho for the christmas lunch. Still plenty of time to experiment with that.

  2. #22
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    Are you asking why did I make them much smaller in the second vid? If so it's because we were doing a 12 course tasting menu which required much smaller portions.
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  3. #23
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    Yeah that is what i was trying to get at. Thanks Rick.

  4. #24
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    Just a quick note for anyone sous-viding rolled-up meat, or meat assembled with transglutaminase. You might have problems with long cooks, like if you're trying to tenderize tougher cuts. There shouldn't be any problem with rib cuts like like the spinalis you guys are talking about, that you'll cook for just a few hours.

    With long cooks, especially with meat rolled into larger forms, meat at the center can spend a long time at temperatures where spoilage organisms thrive. I'm not talking about pathogens, but the large, mostly uncharted families of bacteria and fungi and who-knows-what that can create nasty flavors and odors. Normally, the interior of meat is sterile, more or less, unless the animal was diseased, or unless you've perforated the meat and brought surface organisms to the center. But when you roll or glue pieces together, the surface becomes the interior, and all bets are off.

    I've heard from more than one person experimenting with these techniques who watched the interior of the bag turn green over 36 hours or so. They were then knocked off their feet by baby diaper stench when they opened the bag. Most spoilage organisms can't actually hurt you. But no one usually volunteers to find out.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulraphael View Post
    Just a quick note for anyone sous-viding rolled-up meat, or meat assembled with transglutaminase. You might have problems with long cooks, like if you're trying to tenderize tougher cuts. There shouldn't be any problem with rib cuts like like the spinalis you guys are talking about, that you'll cook for just a few hours.

    With long cooks, especially with meat rolled into larger forms, meat at the center can spend a long time at temperatures where spoilage organisms thrive. I'm not talking about pathogens, but the large, mostly uncharted families of bacteria and fungi and who-knows-what that can create nasty flavors and odors. Normally, the interior of meat is sterile, more or less, unless the animal was diseased, or unless you've perforated the meat and brought surface organisms to the center. But when you roll or glue pieces together, the surface becomes the interior, and all bets are off.

    I've heard from more than one person experimenting with these techniques who watched the interior of the bag turn green over 36 hours or so. They were then knocked off their feet by baby diaper stench when they opened the bag. Most spoilage organisms can't actually hurt you. But no one usually volunteers to find out.
    Good tip. Thanks.

    So my 2 inch thick piece of (flat) brisket should be OK?
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
    Good tip. Thanks.

    So my 2 inch thick piece of (flat) brisket should be OK?
    Easily fine... take what was said with a grain of salt and do lots of reading on it....

    The above comment is the first I have heard anything of what was said... Also it doesn't logically complete... because in a 36+ hr cook the meat has reached max temp a long time before that and the length in time is actually to break down the proteins (aka tenderize) the meats.

    Not saying he is wrong but saying it doesn't compute for me and to do more research and reading to make your own opinion.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by malexthekid View Post
    Easily fine... take what was said with a grain of salt and do lots of reading on it....

    The above comment is the first I have heard anything of what was said... Also it doesn't logically complete... because in a 36+ hr cook the meat has reached max temp a long time before that and the length in time is actually to break down the proteins (aka tenderize) the meats.

    Not saying he is wrong but saying it doesn't compute for me and to do more research and reading to make your own opinion.
    Yes, the flat brisket is totally fine. None of what I said applies to any solid piece of meat. It applies to pieces of meat that have been rolled, stuffed, perforated, or subjected to anything that could get surface contaminants deep in the interior of a thick bundle of meat.

    When the contaminants include spoilage bacteria (which are poorly understood in terms their temperature / time growth and mortality curves) unappealing things can happen. I've spoken to at least two people who have experienced this first-hand, and I don't know all that many people. If you check out the bacteriology chapter in Vol 1. of the Modernist Cuisine series, you'll see a brief rundown of spoilage organisms. In the later volume on sous-vide techniques they warn about long cooks of rolled meat.

    The same circumstances could hypothetically be dangerous with regards to anaerobic spores (c. perfringes and c. botulinum). The s.v. bag is a low-acid, oxygen-free environment, and the center of the meat might spend a long time in the temperature range where spores can blossom into active bugs. If they are given a long enough chance to reproduce, they will deposit toxins that are not destroyed by cooking temperatures. I'm not trying to be dramatic — I have NEVER heard of this happening during a long sous-vide cook, and have been unable to find trustworthy information on how long it takes for spores to activate. Spores may be a non-issue.

    I bring this up only as an example of things to consider with long cooks of anything large. Ask if there's any chance the interior has been contaminated, because it could be spending many, many hours at incubation temperatures.

  8. #28
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    Again you have said this many times without any reference to facts or examples..

    Provide references if you have any, otherwise all you are saying is that if you arent clean when cooking you can get spoilt meat...

    And you say a lot of mights in then, when in fact most microbial organisms are killed at typical cook temps for S.V. (just a case of how long they need to be. Held at that particukar temp for essentially a complete kill.

  9. #29

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    Sadly I can't find a better reference off hand than this: http://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/i...-lactobacillus

    Also mentioned in the very bottom comment by Dave Arnold here : http://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=3337.html

    If you Google "sous vide smelly bacteria long cook" you'll find forum references to people having issues. It doesn't seem super common, and supposedly for whole cuts of meat searing destroys the blue cheese type flavors, but it definitely happens.

  10. #30
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    Again am after actual references, aka modernist cuisime or the stuff by Douglas Baldwin, not anecdottal evidence.

    Sorry but what that suggests to me is poor hygene while cooking or using spoilt meat.

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