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Thread: New Mizuno 270 Gyuto

  1. #11
    Congrats on the new knife. One question though, how do you know the steel is tougher? reason I am asking is that I've had cases when the first sharpening job takes longer than usual and then after that one it all kinda compensates. I think its because some of these knives come with a not so great edge and some thinning happens on the first sharpening job.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tk59 View Post
    I need to try one of these! I've been meaning to ever since I saw UglyJoe's (I think.) review.
    So this knife got you all knife horny??? I think this one and a Carter are on my to do list LOL.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Salty dog's Avatar
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    Just for the helluv-it I have a stainless 270 wa coming.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by UglyJoe View Post
    I noticed this a little bit with mine as well when I first got it. It is my opinion (hotly debated by others here) that the shinogi on this knife is NOT cosmetic. In fact, I use it as a guide for sharpening. The angle difference between the blade road and the thick of the blade is very, very small, so if you try to sharpen it like you would say a yanagi, it's almost guaranteed you will "break" the shinogi line, and the knife won't be as pretty... particularly if you work with a lot of mud on your stone. This doesn't bother me. I sharpen mine by putting pressure just on the edge of the knife but having the knife flat on the stone at the edge, so that the scratch marks hit almost all of the hagane (the hard core steel that makes up the edge). I then lay the knife flat on the stone and put pressure right below the "shinogi" line on the opposite side of the blade (the side your fingers are actually touching). This, for me, would abrade metal from the shinogi down to the bevel that I hit in first step. Then with a gentle rolling motion I blend both bevels together. This makes it look like one bevel from the shinogi down to the edge. It also gives the knife a very thin edge with a nice convexness to it that makes it a superior cutter. Finally I put a microbevel at 35-40* on the outside face of the knife only, and call it done. It's a long process, but I've found that I only have to touch up the microbevel, usually on a strop but every once in a while on my finishing stone, to bring the edge back to screaming life. I only have to go through the whole sharpening process maybe once every 6 months, if that (home user, so I'm sure more often for a pro). I think this is the way the knife was designed to be sharpened. One hint is that everyone I've known to get one (including myself) has commented on their being basically no edge bevel (like we see on most gyutos OOTB, even if the edge itself isn't great), but that the knife still cut well OOTB. I think this is because the knife was initially sharpened the way I described, with the edge bevel blended back up into the secondary bevel of the knife so that you don't really see it, with a tiny microbevel, if they bothered with a microbevel at all. I wish I had the opportunity to see another one OOTB to see if my suspicions are correct.

    Anyway, sharpened this way the knife flies through almost everything - it's still a thick knife at the spine and so it will wedge in tall, hard produce a little regardless of what kind of sharpening you put it through, unless you thin the knife from spine to edge which is basically changing the knife completely.
    Uglyjoe

    I assume you do this on both sides of tge knife? Also are you holding the knife flat against the stone the entire time and just changing where your fingers are applying pressure to the knife? Or are you starting out kind of flat and then getting flatter? I think you are right about the shinogi. The knife currently does not feel correctly sharpened to me. Something seems off. I just simply put a bevel on it at around 12 degrees. It cuts really well but still feels like it gets hung up on stuff and a tomato just slightly squished with it.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by G-rat View Post
    Uglyjoe

    I assume you do this on both sides of tge knife? Also are you holding the knife flat against the stone the entire time and just changing where your fingers are applying pressure to the knife? Or are you starting out kind of flat and then getting flatter? I think you are right about the shinogi. The knife currently does not feel correctly sharpened to me. Something seems off. I just simply put a bevel on it at around 12 degrees. It cuts really well but still feels like it gets hung up on stuff and a tomato just slightly squished with it.
    Watch Jon at JKI's videos on single bevel sharpening and basically do what he does on the blade road side of a single bevel knife, but do it on both sides of the Miz. At least, that's basically what I do. Again, this will ugly the knife a little bit, unless you are far better than me, which you might be - I am not a paragon of sharpening. The knife lays almost flat on the stone... but because that bevel is slightly convex already what you will find is if you put pressure right behind the edge the spine will raise up just a bare fraction higher than if you put pressure behind the shinogi line. You want to maintain those angles. Kind of like what Jon does in that video. Lay the knife flat on it's secondary bevel, then ever, ever, ever so slightly raise the spine just a little bit and you should be hitting just that edge bevel. Be warned though - if you try this, depending on how much metal you've already removed when cutting in a new bevel, you might be looking at a lot of work. You are basically going to be removing the edge bevel that you just put into the knife with your first sharpening, and that can be a pain (I had to the first time I sharpened the knife this way as well; my previous edge bevel was much like yours now and I wasn't really pleased with the knife's performance).

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by UglyJoe View Post
    Watch Jon at JKI's videos on single bevel sharpening and basically do what he does on the blade road side of a single bevel knife, but do it on both sides of the Miz. At least, that's basically what I do. Again, this will ugly the knife a little bit, unless you are far better than me, which you might be - I am not a paragon of sharpening. The knife lays almost flat on the stone... but because that bevel is slightly convex already what you will find is if you put pressure right behind the edge the spine will raise up just a bare fraction higher than if you put pressure behind the shinogi line. You want to maintain those angles. Kind of like what Jon does in that video. Lay the knife flat on it's secondary bevel, then ever, ever, ever so slightly raise the spine just a little bit and you should be hitting just that edge bevel. Be warned though - if you try this, depending on how much metal you've already removed when cutting in a new bevel, you might be looking at a lot of work. You are basically going to be removing the edge bevel that you just put into the knife with your first sharpening, and that can be a pain (I had to the first time I sharpened the knife this way as well; my previous edge bevel was much like yours now and I wasn't really pleased with the knife's performance).
    Thanks that makes complete sense. Yeah I've for my work cut out for me. I just convexed my Moritaka cleaver so to some degree I am used to what you are talking about here. Guess I know what in doing tonight.

  7. #17
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty dog View Post
    Just for the helluv-it I have a stainless 270 wa coming.
    i'm really interested in knowing your opinion of that knife, once you get it.

  8. #18
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    Ok...uglyjoes method is spot on. Sharpened the top of tge "shinogi". Then sharpened to tge edge . Then convexed to blend. Then polished underneath the shinogi to the edge at 5000. Then polished the blended section by convexing at 5000 grit. Then 35 deg micro on 5000. Cut carrots like nothing was there. Thanks uglyjoe. The cuts felt right. Where previously they didn't.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by memorael View Post
    Congrats on the new knife. One question though, how do you know the steel is tougher? reason I am asking is that I've had cases when the first sharpening job takes longer than usual and then after that one it all kinda compensates. I think its because some of these knives come with a not so great edge and some thinning happens on the first sharpening job.
    I think you are right. Sharpening new bevels that work against the geometry are probably harder to cut

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by G-rat View Post
    Ok...uglyjoes method is spot on. Sharpened the top of tge "shinogi". Then sharpened to tge edge . Then convexed to blend. Then polished underneath the shinogi to the edge at 5000. Then polished the blended section by convexing at 5000 grit. Then 35 deg micro on 5000. Cut carrots like nothing was there. Thanks uglyjoe. The cuts felt right. Where previously they didn't.
    Glad to hear it worked well for you. I felt the exact same. Something was missing before, and afterwards the knife felt at peace... Wow, that's the lamest thing I've ever written on a message board before...

    EDIT: If you don't mind me asking, how clean were you able to keep the shinogi line? I could keep it very clean near the heel, but towards the tip the transition from the secondary bevel to the thick of the blade is so small that sharpening rounded over that distinct line very quickly for me...

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