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Citizen Snips

Citizen Snips

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hey all,

just had my wife steal this from her boss so we could sharpen/de-rust it for him for his coming birthday. this knife is no prize as it wasn't cared for as well as it should have been. there is some rust, the handle looks like it was a d shape at one time based on the furrle and it also looks like someone put it to a grinder and made a new edge. it looks like its going to take some work. im not even sure if i can do it. its going to be hell on my stones and i just hope the back is concave for correct sharpening.

it would be great if anyone knew recognized the kanji so i could find out the maker.

thanks in advance

IMG_20110922_223449.jpg

IMG_20110922_223442.jpg
 
Ahhhh! Look at that edge :sad0:
 
ya, as a bonus i just cut the dickens out of my index finger trying to grind the edges together with a dmt. its going to be hours of work and on top of that my finger is probably infected lol

DOH
 
Citizen Snips said:
ya, as a bonus i just cut the dickens out of my index finger trying to grind the edges together with a dmt. its going to be hours of work and on top of that my finger is probably infected lol

DOH
Click to expand...

Did you cut your finger on the DMT? I find it hard to believe that knife could cut anything...:pirate1:
 
nope on the knife. i had the knife flat on its back on a 2x4 ive made into a sink bridge. i had the dmt using it like i would if i was flattening and it slipped so my finger went right into the knife...lesson learned. ive done some stupid stuff in my day but wow.

im thinking i may need a bench grinder or something

also hunt and peck typing is hard
 
And it's a lefty too - nice challenge for you right there. I bet it'll look great when it's all done though. Maybe you should work fast before the infection sets in. :)
 
it does say sakai japan on the back

i really want to get this thing back to its original state. its going to be a project thats for sure. i really dont have loads of hours to spend on the DMT so im gonna try to find a grinder to take care of the first part
 
Hey Snips, you want some inspiration? I'm sure you've seen the blog post that Dave made about a couple of his restorations - if not they are here and here, and they are inspiring. Also, So from Japan Tool has a fantastic discussion on restoring a yanagi and some other knives here that should give you a lot of inspiration for this project going forward. Also, TK has a thread on here somewhere where he did the same thing you are beginning to do.

Good Luck!
 
I'm sure you know, but be CAREFUL on that grinder, especially the tip. Those things can be pretty abrasion resistant and test your patience, but it is pretty thin metal and conducts well, a few seconds on a belt or wheel and it turns colors and you do this: :censored::censored::censored:

It really doesn't look a million miles away from a nice restoration. I love doing those. I wish I had it!

...Now I'm itching. Anyone got a rusted sushi knife?
:sofa:
 
johndoughy said:
I'm sure you know, but be CAREFUL on that grinder, especially the tip. Those things can be pretty abrasion resistant and test your patience, but it is pretty thin metal and conducts well, a few seconds on a belt or wheel and it turns colors and you do this: :censored::censored::censored:

It really doesn't look a million miles away from a nice restoration. I love doing those. I wish I had it!

...Now I'm itching. Anyone got a rusted sushi knife?
:sofa:
Click to expand...

You can get some sharpening scuffs out from one of my knives, hey - I'll even leave it soaking in water for a couple of days for ya.
 
thanks for the kind words and links to the inspirational restorations guys

tbh, i was quite frustrated yesterday that after 1 hour of work on the DMT and what should have been a trip to the hospital, it didnt even look like i did anything to it.

i am back at it tonight but still dont own a grinder and thinking that i may have to find one to do this right. it would take so many man hours to get this done with the DMT and beston that i could get a second job and just buy him a new one...but i wouldn't have the piece of mind, experience, knowledge or pride.
 
Hard to imagine that the blade geometry would be so out of whack as to not respond to the DMT, unless whoever used a grinder before on it changed the geometry, or if the shape wasn't all that great to begin with from the factory. It would be a shame if you had to use a belt grinder, because the grinder will leave marks that will be a challenge to get out byhand anyway. Once you've used a grinder on it you will stillhave a major amount of work on coarse stones or DMT to remove the grinder marks you've put into the steel, and the knife will become thinner in the process.

Is your DMT the big XXC? I don't think you should buy a grinder if it's just for this one knife. See if any knifemakers or KKF members in your area has one, or maybe ask Dave just to do the grinder work and send it back to you for the stones.

I'd guess St Louis MO must have a quite a few knifemakers living there!

A search of the knifemaker's guild yielded these:

Daniel Chinnock
380 River Ridge Drive
Union, MO 63084
USA
314-276-6936
[email protected]
http://DanChinnock.com
Voting Member

Colin J. Cox
107 North Oxford Drive
Raymore, MO 64083
USA
(816) 322-1977
[email protected]
http://colincoxknives.com
Voting Member
C

William C. Davis
1955 S. 1251 Road
El Dorado Springs, MO 64774
USA
(417) 876-1259
[email protected]
http://www.wcdavisknives.com
Voting Member

Don L Hanson lll
P. O. Box 13
Success, MO 65570-0013
USA
573-674-3045
[email protected]
http://www.sunfishforge.com
Voting Member

Corbin Newcomb
628 Woodland Avenue
Moberly, MO 65270
USA
(660) 263-4639
Voting Member
 
Sorry time expired on editing my post.

If you are simply trying to make the front and back faces meet by grinding flat below the shinogi, and the shape of the blade still has a long way to go, I would suggest changing your strategy to making a hamaguriba shape below the shinogi, that way you can get the front and back faces to form an edge. Instead of applying pressure to the center of the blade road, you will do two separate processes: One applying pressure to the upper half of the blade road, to form a clean shinogi line. The second process consisting of passes applying pressure to the lower half of the blade road, to form the edge.

A long time ago on KF or FF there were some links posted to Suisin videos by TATATA about this, but they were in Japanese.....
 
Citizen Snips said:
ya, as a bonus i just cut the dickens out of my index finger trying to grind the edges together with a dmt. its going to be hours of work and on top of that my finger is probably infected lol

DOH
Click to expand...

got to take care of that cut and not neglect it. Don't want that slurry or swarf to get into the wound . When we realize that a loss of a finger will make it difficult to do the normal things, then only we will take care of it.

with the finger out of action, it may be easier to use a 400 grit and 600 grit sandpaper, put it flat on the table with a backing and rub knife on it . For finer control, rub the sandpaper on it ( with a backing; I prefer hard rubber). As there is some light rust, WD 40 may speed it up.

And do tape up your finger ( iron oxides adn metal filings dont go too well with wounds) and keep it clean..

Have fun and a nice week-end

rgds...
 
olpappy-wow, thanks for the research and well thought out strategy. one of the first things i thought of was the fact i would probably have to do hamaguri style eventually, the problem being that i still have to work the metal down evenly to even get to the point where i could do a hamaguri edge correctly. there is a knife sharpening company here that specializes in german cutlery and renting knives to local restaurants and i know one of the workers there pretty well. they have a water cooled wheel grinder and i was just going to head up there and see if they can get some of the job done and maybe even it out a bit. the 2+ hours ive done still dont look like ive made much of a dent in it. the real problem here is that im right handed and so this lefty knife is a completely new muscle memory. the good part about that is i may be able to have some hours logged into this to make double bevel sharpening easier on me in the future.

i think that the new primary edge someone put on this thing was probably around 40-45 degrees. this means i have a lot of metal to take off if i want it to get where i can start on my beston even. it is responding little by little but not in enough time where i can even fathom an end of the road.

i may look into some sandpaper if i dont feel like water cooled grinder is a safe bet and will ruin the integrity of the knife. im sure it was a decent knife as it has a concave backside and it looks to be, at least, decently forged so i feel like this challenge is going to be worth it.

i just wish i knew the maker for sure. Jon was the only one who even had a guess.
 
zitangy said:
got to take care of that cut and not neglect it. Don't want that slurry or swarf to get into the wound . When we realize that a loss of a finger will make it difficult to do the normal things, then only we will take care of it.

with the finger out of action, it may be easier to use a 400 grit and 600 grit sandpaper, put it flat on the table with a backing and rub knife on it . For finer control, rub the sandpaper on it ( with a backing; I prefer hard rubber). As there is some light rust, WD 40 may speed it up.

And do tape up your finger ( iron oxides adn metal filings dont go too well with wounds) and keep it clean..

Have fun and a nice week-end

rgds...
Click to expand...

thanks for the tip on the sandpaper. it may be worth a shot.

as for the infection, i was just being a little sarcastic. after i got the bleeding stopped, i was able to clean it really well and get some anti-infectant in there and bandaged it really well. also being a professional chef, i had tons of finger cots laying around from previous injuries that were helpful in allowing me to continue some work on the knife in the past few days
 
Just an additional thought.. don' t forget to touch up the handle. If they are not cracked, a light sanding, followed by mineral oil and then wax will work wonders on the handle! It will bring it to life! I use Howard's feed and wax as it has a combination of mineral oil, bees wax and also carnuba wax.

have fun

rgds dl
 
i use mineral and orange oil with my apiarists extra bees wax. i do not prefer carnuba for handles or cutting boards but thanks for the tip. i was also thinking about getting him a new handle from marko or something if i can even get this thing back to glorious.

the 100 grit sandpaper seems to be doing a great job. ive had a few whiskys so im not going to try too much tonight and risk another cut but it will get some time tomorrow
 
anyone have some suggestions to help polish up the other parts of the knife. i use BKF to remove rust but i think it will still need a little bit of polishing. i will need it to be super fine as im not really wanting to mess up the geometry of the knife especially the back side where it is concave.
 
zitangy said:
Just an additional thought.. don' t forget to touch up the handle. If they are not cracked, a light sanding, followed by mineral oil and then wax will work wonders on the handle! It will bring it to life! I use Howard's feed and wax as it has a combination of mineral oil, bees wax and also carnuba wax.

have fun

rgds dl
Click to expand...

i soak in mineral oil, then sand, then coat in my own beeswax/oil cutting board mix, then polish, then sand again, then coat in wax, then polish, then burnish. i find that this gives the longest lasting results.
 
what do you use to polish EdipisReks and what sandpaper grit do you use??

that is super helpful as ive never had a knife that really needed that much handle work but i was also referring to the parts of the metal that will not see a stone such as the uri and above the shinogi (the secondary bevel?)
 
Citizen Snips said:
what do you use to polish EdipisReks and what sandpaper grit do you use??

that is super helpful as ive never had a knife that really needed that much handle work but i was also referring to the parts of the metal that will not see a stone such as the uri and above the shinogi (the secondary bevel?)
Click to expand...

i use scraps of split-grain leather for polishing after waxing. i typically sand with 500 wet/dry for smoothing and taking out gouges and whatever fine paper i have lying around for the rest.
 
well, i think im just about done. i will take a picture or two but what im bummed out about is that i didn't take a bunch of before pictures. this is my first attempt at a complete restoration so its not perfect but with the tools i had i feel as though i did pretty good

all in all it took probably 6 hours of my time, 1/8 cup of blood, and all the patience i have. i spent most of that time with the DMT XXC and 100 grit norton sandpaper with a rubber sander. most of the work i did came from having the knife on its back and working the bevels together. this took so much time because blending the bevels together had to be held at a certain angle or i would take off too much metal in other places. after i got that straightened out, the easy part was turning that into a hamaguri bevel by blending them together.

after i did all that work on the front bevel, i found that whoever did this to the knife also ground metal off the back side making it very difficult. i had to make a very small convex edge on the backside that i feel will work the back bevel without ruining the work that was put into the back side during the forging process. i really had to raise the angle from flat to about 3 degrees

next was the BKF with a champagne cork to remove all the rust and 200 and 600 grit sandpaper for the handle which i used mineral oil and orange oil on. the last thing i will do right before i give it to him is to get a good layer of my mineral oil/beeswax on it and let it sit overnight. i think ill give it to him tomorrow. i do wish i could get him a custom saya or new handle or both but we were on a limited budget and he is going to love it anyway.

i then ran it through a full set of stones to make the scratches come out easier and making it possible to use felt to polish the blade road. i used:
DMT XXC
beston 500
bester 1200
blue aoto 2k
suehiro rika 5k
arashiyama 6k
kitayama 8k
leather strop
CRO2 loaded felt

well, thanks for all your kind suggestions and support through what had to have been the most painful experience ive to date. now i wish i had another project to work on

:D
 
I am sure that the owners eyes will pop for as compared to its original condition.. a far cry...
I think you got the bug... ( to restore kitchen knives) .

rgds
 
Citizen Snips said:
well, i think im just about done. i will take a picture or two but what im bummed out about is that i didn't take a bunch of before pictures. this is my first attempt at a complete restoration so its not perfect but with the tools i had i feel as though i did pretty good

all in all it took probably 6 hours of my time, 1/8 cup of blood, and all the patience i have. i spent most of that time with the DMT XXC and 100 grit norton sandpaper with a rubber sander. most of the work i did came from having the knife on its back and working the bevels together. this took so much time because blending the bevels together had to be held at a certain angle or i would take off too much metal in other places. after i got that straightened out, the easy part was turning that into a hamaguri bevel by blending them together.

after i did all that work on the front bevel, i found that whoever did this to the knife also ground metal off the back side making it very difficult. i had to make a very small convex edge on the backside that i feel will work the back bevel without ruining the work that was put into the back side during the forging process. i really had to raise the angle from flat to about 3 degrees

next was the BKF with a champagne cork to remove all the rust and 200 and 600 grit sandpaper for the handle which i used mineral oil and orange oil on. the last thing i will do right before i give it to him is to get a good layer of my mineral oil/beeswax on it and let it sit overnight. i think ill give it to him tomorrow. i do wish i could get him a custom saya or new handle or both but we were on a limited budget and he is going to love it anyway.

i then ran it through a full set of stones to make the scratches come out easier and making it possible to use felt to polish the blade road. i used:
DMT XXC
beston 500
bester 1200
blue aoto 2k
suehiro rika 5k
arashiyama 6k
kitayama 8k
leather strop
CRO2 loaded felt

well, thanks for all your kind suggestions and support through what had to have been the most painful experience ive to date. now i wish i had another project to work on

:D
Click to expand...

Congrats! Still... pics or you know...
 
any critiques, comments, concerns or suggestions are all welcomed

thanks for looking
 
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