Looking for a mellower alternative to the Sigma 1200.

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PalmRoyale

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I love the Sigma Select II 1200, it's a very aggressive stone that removes a lot of metal very quickly so it's great for setting bevels. It's also a hard stone so it's wear resistant. But sometimes it's just too much of a good thing precisely because it's so aggressive. I'm looking for a stone in the same grit range that's a bit more mellow but at the same time reasonably fast. I have no real preference for a soaker or splash and go stone and I also don't mind if it's a bit softer. Any recommendations?
 
I haven't used the Sigma Select II 1200, but based upon your description, I know of a couple of alternatives that might be worth a try...

If you want to try a softer stone that has a 'cushier' feel, but still cuts PM steels well, I would recommend checking out the Gesshin 1200 Splash & Go or the Ohishi 1000 if you can get your hands on one. These are my favorite feeling mid-grit stones on 62hrc+ steels; they have a very smooth, creamy, cushioned feeling, and can build up some mud. They are a real pleasure to sharpen on kind of in the same way that a softer Coticule with a thick slurry is a pleasure to sharpen on. They are both pretty soft (Gouging is easy if your angle control is off; they're a bit softer than any of my Coti's, almost like a JNS synthetic Red Aoto. You also need to use a very light touch when sharpening.), and wear pretty quickly (I wish either would come in a big brick size.), so you will be flattening more often. At the same time, though, they are very fast/painless to lap. Neither I care for as much on softer <60hrc steels, as you can get a little bit of slurry dulling/excessive convexity, but on the harder steels you can still get a clean edge that can shave arm-hair.

Both are Splash & Go stones, but it's best if you permasoak them, as they hold their water better and load less this way. The mud on the Gesshin has kind of a kaolin clay-slip feeling.

Another stone you might like is the Naniwa Chosera/Pro 800... It's much faster, and harder than the Gesshin or Ohishi, but can still build up a light slurry mud (Especially if soaked for 5-min.). Naniwa's magnesia stones have a kind of velvety feel to them that is very enjoyable, and belies their hardness/dish resistance, but still aren't as 'cushy' as the Gesshin or Ohishi. I think they're also much more readily available to you. All vary a little bit in hardness; some are softer, others harder. The 800 is a little softer and muddier than the 1K, and the 600 softer still, which can almost be treated as a really fast 1K in most situations. Typically I can jump straight from the 600 to a 6K synth, although it's a bit of a struggle for my Coti's. The 800 is typically my precursor to a dilucot on my Belgian stones, and the type of edge it leaves is very uniform without excessive convexity, which transitions excellently to my harder Coti's. It also plays well with most steels irregardless of hardness or makeup. If I could only have one medium synth, this would probably be it out of all the ones I've tried, although I would miss some of my others from time to time (The feel of the Gesshin 1200, the speed of the JNS 800, the precise bevels I get on the G2K and Shapton GS 1K, the way my Shapton Pro 1K erases diamond scratches and perfects knives I'm thinning, the glassy smoothness and consistency of the Shapton 2K's on razors, etc.).

The Naniwa's magnesia stones work best either splash & go, or with just a few minutes soak, and you need to be a bit careful with drying them evenly as they can crack. I just set mine on their side so that air can circulate around them, and flip them over so that the other edge can dry. Haven't had a problem so far.

One final stone you might want to look at which I was recommended as being inline with the Naniwa, is the Suehiro Cerax 1K. I don't own this one yet, but based upon everything I've heard/seen it's another one worth a look if you're searching for a more tactile stone than your Sigma...

Hopefully this helps...

- Steampunk
 
Can't directly compare the Select II 1200 to something, but I do have the Sigma Power 1k 'Soft'. If it has traits similar to the Select II, then a stone like the Cerax 1k feels a bit less aggressive, more friendly, yet I would not consider it slow
 
A Gesshin or Ohishi is not an option. I'd have to get one outside of the EU and that makes it too expensive with the cost of shipping factored in. I'd also have to pay VAT if the stone is picked out at customs. The Chosera 800 is also not an option because it's not available anywhere in the EU. I think I might just go with the Cerax 1000 or maybe even the King Deluxe 1200. It's a stone I know rather well and I've always liked it. JNS 800 also gets good reviews. Can anyone offer some insight on it?
 
I didn't know the Naniwa Pro stones are the same as the Choseras. knivesandtools.nl has it as well. And about the JNS 800, is it a a true 800 grit stone or is it a higher grit?
 
Are the Oshi the same as the Gesshin?

I believe the JNS 800 is true 800.
 
Yes, the Ohishi stones are quite soft...

Regarding the JNS 800; it's kind of an unusual stone.

Firstly, it is very, very thirsty. It's a permasoaker, and needs a lot of splashing in use to keep it from drying out. It's kind of soft, but not as soft as Ohishi, and it doesn't have a smooth or creamy sharpening feel. Also, it is an 800 grit stone in the scratch pattern (Naniwa runs a little finer; their 800 is more like a 1K), but it's a real animal of an 800! 'Mellow' is not a word I would use to describe this stone... It does great on super-hard PM stainless and very wear resistant tool steels (Like HAP40), and it eats gummy western SS knives for breakfast. The cutting speed is much higher than you would credit its grit for on edge bevels, and about what one would expect with more steel in contact with the stone for blade backs or wide bevels. However, it feels as aggressive as it is, and the constant watering it needs can get a bit annoying; you flood your work station if you aren't working over a basin or similar to catch the water that seeps through it, and you spend as much time splashing it as you do actually sharpening. This is a trade-off that is easily lived with when you're working with a PITA steel and are done messing around with other stones that aren't hacking it, though, as this is a stone that seriously gets work done. It's also a nice big brick, which is nice to work on, and will have some life to it in spite of its softness. Aesthetically, some people also like the very uniform, two-tone grey sandblasted finish you get off of it on laminated knives and tools.

Another note: it tends to leave a kind of sandblasted finish on hardened steel that is harder to polish out on a finishing stone than most Alox stones in the 600-1K range. Because it is a softer, muddier stone, it also tends to create some convexity that is noticeable when transitioning to harder stones. Not as much as some others, but it's enough that you'll see some highs and lows...

I'm glad I have this stone, and for certain applications I would recommend it, but you will have to decide if the trade-offs are worth it for your application.

For my own tastes, the Naniwa is the medium stone I use when setting up a progression around Belgian stones; they play really well together. The Ohishi and the Gesshin are also the most mellow, and enjoyable medium-grit synths I own if feel is the sole concern. Comparing them to music, the Ohishi is smooth Jazz, the Naniwa is light rock & roll, and the JNS 800 is experimental techno. They're all good; it just depends what you're in the mood for.

Hopefully this helps...

- Steampunk
 
the constant watering it needs can get a bit annoying; you flood your work station if you aren't working over a basin or similar to catch the water that seeps through it, and you spend as much time splashing it as you do actually sharpening.
Not related to my decision, but if it's so thirsty, wouldn't it be a good idea to seal the sides and bottom of the JNS 800?
 
I'm not really one for sealing porous synthetic stones... No definite objection, but I guess I just ask myself what happens to all the water that is trapped inside with nowhere to go? If not changed regularly, sharpening water gets dank, and begins to form pond life. I don't really want that happening inside my stones, so I appreciate with my soakers the ability to filter fresh water through them routinely. With non-porous ones, which are prone to cracking, sealing is something I understand and am happy to do.

- Steampunk
 
I think I'm going to order the King Deluxe 1200. I know how it performs and how to keep it flat. I've always liked how it feels in use and it's a reasonably fast stone. It's also cheap and thicker compared to other stones which is a big plus since I'll be using the stone at work.
 
to answer if the ohishi and gesshin are the same, they are not... same type of binding agent and same abrasive, but very different stones (for what its worth, almost all resinoid based stones use a form of white alumina as the abrasive)
 
A Gesshin or Ohishi is not an option. I'd have to get one outside of the EU and that makes it too expensive with the cost of shipping factored in. I'd also have to pay VAT if the stone is picked out at customs. The Chosera 800 is also not an option because it's not available anywhere in the EU. I think I might just go with the Cerax 1000 or maybe even the King Deluxe 1200. It's a stone I know rather well and I've always liked it. JNS 800 also gets good reviews. Can anyone offer some insight on it?

http://cleancut.se/butik/knivslipning/slipsten-medel/slipsten-medel2013-08-22-12-33-18-detail
 
So I didn't order the King 1200 but the Ohishi 1000 grit. I decided no to play it safe and take a chance on this stone. It's only €40 so if I don't like it, it's no big loss.
 

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