Help: jnats

I think this is one area i haven't really explored yet... haven't used one or owned one... anyone can educate me on the advantages of jnats over synthetics?

I see some are super expensive, can the price be justified?

Now that Maksim has -20% buy one aiiwatani and use it as finisher. If you can Stop there. It Will save you many pennies.

Read that: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/about-japanese-natural-stones/

And also for instance some other Maxim's contributions on his webpage, in the chapter JNS Wiki...For me, using the Ohira Suita from him for the first time was a completely new experience regarding the resulting sharpness and edge retention...both were much better than those from JNS 6k synthetic stone, which, however, is considered a great synthetic finisher...

BTW - the title is sympthomatic for my last weeks:-D...I felt in love with naturals and bought recently 4 different ones...3 different suitas and that Aiiwatani as well...But I liked that Ohira suita from Maxim more trhan his Aiiwatani - quicker, somewhat less fine, so more practical edge for the kitchen uses, etc...But it was also distinctly more expensive...

Krakorak said:

Read that: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/about-japanese-natural-stones/

And also for instance some other Maxim's contributions on his webpage, in the chapter JNS Wiki...For me, using the Ohira Suita from him for the first time was a completely new experience regarding the resulting sharpness and edge retention...both were much better than those from JNS 6k synthetic stone, which, however, is considered a great synthetic finisher...

BTW - the title is sympthomatic for my last weeks:-D...I felt in love with naturals and bought recently 4 different ones...3 different suitas and that Aiiwatani as well...But I liked that Ohira suita from Maxim more trhan his Aiiwatani - quicker, somewhat less fine, so more practical edge for the kitchen uses, etc...But it was also distinctly more expensive...

Click to expand...

+1 I would go for Suita Strata stones (Ohira, Shinden, Okudo).....

I currently do tests with only one knife (1.2562/F2 Toolsteel 67HRC), and with copletely angle controle (using Bogdan Mankos Skorpion benchstone sharpening system) starting at razor sharp HHT - 4/5 level the edge retention with jnats is about 2 -3 times better then synthetic stones (used synthetics : Chosera 10k, Gokumyo 15k, Gokumyo 20k).
Best edge retention so far is with a selected Nakayama Kiita (Lvl. 4,5, ultra fine).....
But for handhoning stay at Suita level, you will benefit.

Greets Sebastian.

karloevaristo said:

I think this is one area i haven't really explored yet... haven't used one or owned one... anyone can educate me on the advantages of jnats over synthetics?

I see some are super expensive, can the price be justified?

Click to expand...

I am new to natural stones myself but I have a few. I can share my experiences so far but before I do my suggestion would be that if you have questions about a particular stone, ask the dealer. Some seem to be quicker than others about answering.

My limited experience:

-Range: Unlike a synthetic, naturals seem to span a range of abrasive size/shape.

-Finish: This seems to be less uniform than their synthetic counterparts.

-Edge: It is hard for me to explain but it is different. To me it feels as if the blade has been sharpened on multiple medium stone ranges simultaneously.

-Feel/feedback: Even harder stones seem to have some grip to them so you can feel where your edge is and what is being done to it. But again, I don't have experience with a lot of stones.

-Smell: Yes, they smell. Particularly like earth/clay. I like this but some don't.

-Mud: It feels like wet clay as it dry's on your hands and it drys your hands out.

-Look: They have character. This can make them conversation pieces. My friends and family ask me why I keep rocks on a shelf in my kitchen, they never understand.

-Speed: Mid grit naturals seem to cut a fair bit slower then their synthetic counterparts. Maybe there are stones out there that are quicker than what I have used.

That is my interpretation from my limited experience with a handful of stones.

If there's one entry level finishing stone you recommend, which one would it be?

Probably not too expensive, also i work in a pro kitchen, push cut, almost zero rocking...
i prefer stopping at 5k, currently i have a rika5k...

Also naturals you don't soak, right? Just splash and go?

My favorite finishing stone is an ohira suita. However, i think, for starters, you should get something like a good aoto because it is much cheaper and the edge it leaves is serviceable. The downside to aotos is that there is a great variability on these stones. I have two that are completely different one from another, both good ones: the first is harder and leaves a more refined edge; the second one is much softer and muddy, but leaves a great toothy edge. You should look for stones from reputable sellers. JNS is having a 20% discount right now and there are some aotos (those softer and muddy ones) for sale there.

+ 1 for the Ohira Suita. It was my first nat and still my favourite.

And yes, it's hard to get a good Aoto so not sure if that should be the first one.

In similar threads, Ohira Suita was the most frequently mentioned recommendation, Shinichi Watanabe (www.kitchen-knife.jp) who is a great and quickly responding JNATS seller, mentioned to me about 10 days ago that he intends to make a big Ohira Suita Christmas sale, didn't do it so far, but anyway, kindly offered me big (about 40%) discounts on stones I was interested in (there was no Ohira suita among them, but only because I already have that from Maxim)...so maybe he would be willing to give a good price you as well..

And regarding aotos - I am definitely no JNATs expert, but as far as I have read, most aotos are rather mid grit (around 1-2 k) and good ones between 3-5 k are really rare...

I think you'll get very subjective answers.

is it essential - probably not

does it give me a more refined and sharper edge- most definitely

I see it as a matter of justifying paying more to get that extra 5-10% in performance, polish or edge.

one of the problems with jnats is that every stone is different even if they are mined next to each other.

so unless you buy from reputable seller who charge more, you may end up getting burnt .. especially with so many fake and rubbish stones around

but as said earlier- if you want to jump into jnats, it's probably the best time with JNS 20% sale and wantabe (basically you name any stone and he will give you a 40-50% discount- I wish he had this 2 months ago before I got a bunch of stuff from him)

karloevaristo said:

I think this is one area i haven't really explored yet... haven't used one or owned one... anyone can educate me on the advantages of jnats over synthetics?

I see some are super expensive, can the price be justified?

Click to expand...

Sweet, thanks guys!

To sneak my own question into this has anybody here had experience with Oouchi natural stones as finishers? I believe Jon carries them sometimes.

I have an Oouchi, but not those from Jon. Mine is from JKS and should be harder than Jon's. I imagine his Oouchi is more like a Takashima, which is the stone compared to it in his description. Easy to produce slurr and not very hard, a nice stone to have, i imagine.

Thanks for the info Marcelo.

A little on the thirsty side

+ 1 for the Ohira Suita like crazy.
my ohira suita was so awesome the first second i used it. instant smile because it did everything awesome
since i got i pretty cheap and actually blind bought it in a j.auction its a real jackpot.

Watanabe has awesome ones (i got a ohira shiro suita and ohira ao renge suita from him and totally thrust him)
its actually often that u dondt need a very thick stone.. but the wide is for me the most important thing.. 180mm length but 85mm wide is awesome fun to work with
U dondt just pay for performance, but for super comfort with excellent jnats.. super splash and gom fast, super smooth like silk, black swarf of doom and it smells like the mountains

i am nearly done with getting new jnats to have a super coarse to deathstar-super-polishing progression.
still the jns1000 is a super sick awesome 1k stone for me but maybe a auction super cheapo green ikarashi could be even cooler.. i just hope i will get cured from all thius jnats stuff soon ) blows giant holes in your bank account 24/7

so. GO SUITA .. ohira is somehow the best for kitchen knifes.

Seeya, daniel